Thursday, July 12, 2007

Ask A Korean! News: America, Make It Yours.

(Screw it, here is the post. No one cares about old news anyway.)

-EDIT- Check out this week's Mexcian. There are some real doozies.

This is a bit old, but the demise of the immigration bill was disappointing to the Korean, so we will talk about it a little here. If you have no idea what this is about, here is an LA Times article.

In order to get a typical attitude of a person who opposed the bill, let us bring out an old friend, TexasFred, who wrote this steaming pile of crap about the Korean folks who drowned in Trinity River near Dallas because a 911 operator hung up on them multiple times:

Call me hard-hearted, but if you come to MY nation and spend over 20 years of YOUR life here, making money, enjoying the fruits of this land and ALL it has to offer and you don’t have the motivation to learn to speak English, or you don’t entertain the idea that after all that time you SHOULD become an American, to hell with you, I don’t care WHAT happens to you, you’re nothing but a leech on MY nation."

The Korean wanted to destroy that above sentence for some time, and now is as good a time as any.

The Korean’s point is simple: What makes America YOUR country, TexasFred?

Generally, if something is yours, you have worked for it. A car is yours if you paid for it. Same goes for anything that we own. What did you pay to get your American citizenship? Let me guess – you paid NOTHING. No effort was made on your part to make America “your” country. You were just lucky. Your mother was in America when you were born.


You paid taxes? Don’t be stupid. You didn’t pay taxes to get born, did you? IRS can do a lot of things, but it can’t come after you while you’re sitting your mother’s womb. Plus, if paying taxes were a valid criterion for citizenship, all illegal immigrants would get an amnesty right now. They pay taxes when they receive their pay, and they also pay sales tax when they buy anything. Heck, if taxes were enough, the amount of tax paid by Samsung Electronics and Hyundai Motors would be enough to turn every single Korean national into an American citizen.


On the other hand, immigrants always pay in order to make America theirs. They put up money, labor, and often their own lives (as we can see from the increasing number of Hispanics in the military in exchange for American citizenship.) Even the people who jump the border put more work to make it to America than you ever did. So how is your claim of ownership possibly better than an immigrant’s?


You may object this way (actually the Korean is certain that you do not have the wherewithal to make an objection like this, but he is being nice here): “It’s not ‘my’ country like ‘my’ car. It’s ‘my’ country like ‘my’ parents – an accidental inheritance to be sure, but there is a spiritual connection between me and the country in which I live.”


Nope. Make that argument if you are intent on giving America back to Native Americans. The “spiritual connection to the land” idea is shaky to begin with -- Koreans do this all the time, talking about how Korea deserves a bigger land mass because older Korean kingdoms occupied northeastern China for about 1000 years. Well, what about the other 1000 years when China occupied the same land?
But even if one accepts the idea, the longest that any American (except Native Americans) has ever lived in this country is about 3 centuries, which is not nearly enough for anyone to seriously make a claim on the land. Most people in the world can claim their heritage in the same land for at least a millennium and a half, and a lot of those people don’t have their own country. (Take for example Kurds, Basques, Chechens, and Tibetans, not to mention Native Americans.)

Still another objection might be that immigrants might fundamentally change the “American culture”. So let’s look at American culture. Most of American music—jazz, rock and roll, R&B, and hip-hop—does not exist without immigrants (albeit forced) from Africa. The representative American foods such as hamburger, French fries and pizza are from Germany, Belgium, and Italy. The point is simple – what is left of American culture if we take away the immigrant influence? On the flip side, if something as wonderful as jazz and burger is waiting for us in the future by virtue of immigrant influence (like salsa and galbi, perhaps?), how is that not a reason to welcome more immigrants?

In fact, rejection of immigrants offends one of the core values of America: free market, and by corollary, free competition. Here is a really simple way of getting rid of all illegal immigrants—work harder than them! The Korean would love to see immigration opponents put their money where their mouth is, and line up to take all the jobs that immigrants tend to do. Nothing would be more delightful than Lou Dobbs climbing a tree to pick an orange, or being dragged through two years of bullshit lawsuit as a hapless drycleaner. Do you not like Mexicans mowing lawns? Do the same thing cheaper and better than Mexicans, and they will go away. Do you not like Asians dominating the engineering and medical fields? Maybe you should have done better during high school. You are no better than the little brat who takes the ball and goes home just because he keeps on losing, except the ball is not yours to begin with.

The proposed immigration bill isn’t bad because it does too much; it’s bad because it doesn’t do nearly enough. America belongs to those who recognize the country as the blessing and treasure that it is. So here is the Korean’s proposal for immigration and citizenship policy.


It starts simple. All children born in U.S. or into American parents get a provisional citizenship until age 18. Their status won’t change much from as it is right now. At the age of 18, every child as well as everyone in the world is eligible for the citizenship test, which asks basic questions about American history, geography, and civics. Anyone who passes will receive a full citizenship for two years. Full citizenship entails the same rights as the current American citizenship.


Anyone who fails to pass, or any full citizenship holder who commits a felony, receives a basic citizenship. Basic citizenship is similar to what illegal immigrants go through right now. Basic citizenship holders may stay in the U.S., and must pay taxes. (That’s right, illegal immigrants pay taxes too.) Basic citizens are generally eligible for full citizenship every time there is a citizenship exam. But they cannot receive any higher education, nor can they receive any medical insurance, publicly or privately. Constitutional rights are not quite suspended, but they operate at a lower level. For example, basic citizens can be searched for any reason whatsoever. They can also be detained for an extended period of time without b
eing told the reason for detention. Medical care is of course not provided in detention. If you die while being locked up, too bad. (Check out the link. It’s really something.)

But here is the beauty of the Korean's proposal -- ANYONE in the world can come to America and immediately obtain basic citizenship, and they are eligible for the full citizenship exam just as much as anyone who is born in the U.S. Competition can sort out the rest. Full citizenship Americans will be the best and the brightest, and the basic citizenship Americans will be there to tend the gardens and flip burgers.

The proposal is still rough around the edges, but you get the idea. Do you want to call America YOUR country? You better earn it, pal. If you don’t know who John Roberts is or the fact that the President can’t cut taxes under the Constitution, (just a couple of things that all immigrants who take the citizenship exam know, and so many xenophobic "Americans" don't,) you probably don’t deserve to “
come to MY nation and spend over 20 years of YOUR life here, making money, enjoying the fruits of this land and ALL it has to offer[.]” Idiot.

Got a question or comment for the Korean? Email away at askakorean@hotmail.com

21 COMMENTS:

Carpal said...

Word. There are so many arguments against the kind of bullshit that people like that Texas guy spew that I sometimes forget this most basic one.

B said...

I love this idea that immigrants come to this country and "make money" and "enjoy the fruits of this land," as if cash is just pouring out of spigots all along the gold-paved streets for people to freely scoop up. Those "fruits" aren't just handed out at the border, they're earned, and for most immigrants it takes a hell of a lot more work to earn that dollar than is required of your average American-born citizen. Latino and Asian immigrants do most of the shittiest, most demanding labor in this country, and for the least amount of pay.

I would love to see what these anti-immigrant types would do if every single legal or illegal immigrant to this country suddenly were to vanish from existence for, say, one year. How quickly would they shit their pants in panic, once they realized that the comfortable lifestyle they enjoy was suddenly gone? If anything, it's the rest of America that makes money off of and enjoys the fruits of immigrant labor.

Chris said...

But here is the beauty of the Korean's proposal -- ANYONE in the world can come to America and immediately obtain basic citizenship, and they are eligible for the full citizenship exam just as much as anyone who is born in the U.S.

How about if South Korea served as our test case for your proposal? My ancestors put a hell of a lot into this country, and I don't happen to have a spare, so I'd hate to see it blown on some bizarre social engineering project thought up by some resentful minority guy in a cubicle.

By the way, do you have even *a single* ancestor who so much as set one foot in North America before the 1965 Immigration Act? If not, you really need to pipe down.

the Korean said...

The Korean would actually love it if all countries, including Korea, adopted the Korean's proposal actually. Because of Korea's much less restrictive immigration policy, Korea is (unwittingly, the Korean must admit,) closer to the Korean's proposal at any rate. Search this blog for Korea's immigration policy, if you are curious.

The Korean will also have you know that he has a beautiful office of his own that overlooks the skyline of Manhattan.

But most importantly, you just proved the Korean's point. What do your ancestors have anything to do with YOUR status in America? The Korean can understand the argument that what your parents/guardians do on your behalf when you were a minor has bearings on you because you were too young to act on your own. But beyond that? Why does that matter one bit?

If the "arrival order" mattered, people of the Mayflower Society should have the final say in everything important in America. But clearly that's not the case, and the Korean doubts you would advocate for that case.

Your argument, then, boils down to: "My ancestors were here before yours, although there are a lot of people ahead of my ancestors. But we are going to stop the line right behind me, because I don't want to share what I got through the accident of my inheritance."

The Korean cannot think many more un-American statements than that.

Chris said...

The Korean, I think I can say with certainty that a substantial segment of the Korean population would be deeply disturbed if the population of their country had become over the course of a few decades, say, one-fifth non-Korean - particularly if this one-fifth were not even East Asian. It's easy to say "hey, look at how open Korea is," when in fact, Korean openness has not actually been tested. It's an utterly empty bluff. Tell me, what fraction of the South Korean population is non-Korean?

I also suspect you're not a very typical Korean. The typical Korean says “blood” is the most important criterion defining Korea, and that the Korea nation has a *single* bloodline. http://tinyurl.com/d2uxym. Do you think by “blood” and “bloodline” the survey-takers and respondents actually meant “ability to work hard and compete economically, and irrespective of national origin, race and ethnic identity?” Or did they just mean "blood" and "bloodline?"

the Korean said...

Chris,

Everything you said is absolutely correct. Koreans would generally be disturbed. Koreans by and large believe in the bloodline idea. Also, the Korean is not a very typical Korean.

But the Korean never once said that he was representing what Korean people thought. He cannot see how you got that impression. This post is clearly about the Korean's own opinion. If you wish to argue against the Korean's viewpoint, the Korean would welcome it. But talking about what a typical Korean person thinks misses the point entirely.

Chris said...

So we agree that Koreans feel a strong bond between Korean blood and soil. But you seem to also say that such a feeling is inappropriate among white Americans.

I suspect that you would like to deny that bond in America because you, on one hand, are an American citizen, with all the rights as any other American, but on the other hand you are a member of a very recently arrived, and very different, ethnic group. It's in your interest to go on about how America is a "nation of immigrants."

It's also in your own group's interest to keep Korea populated by ethnic Koreans. After all, what ethnic group wants to make itself disappear by mass immigration? Can you imagine Korea being willing to let in a few million Africans or South Americans, even if they were the only smartest and most industrious among them? Hell no.

From what you've said, it sounds as if YOU, the Korean, would be willing for that to happen in S. Korea, despite knowing that the people would be against it. Is this the case?

the Korean said...

Chris,

So we agree that Koreans feel a strong bond between Korean blood and soil. But you seem to also say that such a feeling is inappropriate among white Americans.

That's exactly what the Korean is saying. The Korean is also saying that such feeling is inappropriate for Koreans as well.

It's in your interest to go on about how America is a "nation of immigrants."

Yes. But the Korean believes that it is in America's interest as well.

It's also in your own group's interest to keep Korea populated by ethnic Koreans.

The Korean does not believe that it is in Korean people's interest to keep Korea populated only by ethnic Koreans, whether they realize this or not at this point.

From what you've said, it sounds as if YOU, the Korean, would be willing for that to happen in S. Korea, despite knowing that the people would be against it. Is this the case?

Yes.

Chris said...

Ok, I get it. You are something of a Utopian. I don't think the the world will ever get there. Evolution and Nature won't go along.

the Korean said...

The Korean doubts that the world will ever get there either. But it never hurts to dream.

Chris said...

The regime that lords over half of your people over in Asia was also born of Utopianism. But at least they gave it a shot, didn't they. After all, what are a few famines, a breakup of a country, and the perpetual poverty and starvation of millions compared to the opportunity pursue an idealistic dream?

Chris in South Korea said...

As much as I like the idea of 'basic' or 'full' citizenship, I hesitate in light of the current economy. Yes, of course, I know you wrote this quite some time ago before the economy went to pot.
I presume a few different things would being happening: first,
too many people looking for work and not enough jobs to go around. That probably leads to a dramatic increase in welfare / unemployment claims - which would be handled differently based on your citizenship status. Would we give more assistance to the 'full' citizen or the 'basic' citizen?

Second, a dramatic increase in small businesses opening up, or businesses that support small businesses (eBay, Vistaprint in the printing world, etc.). Some businesses would also certainly be wonderful additions to any community - or increase crime / drugs / piracy. I imagine the citizenship test prep class would sell out quickly, however - and may even increase educational standards in some areas of the country (Teachers threatening, "You don't want to fail the test, do you?!" would probably be more effective than most other threats).

Third, a slew of lawsuits from groups like the ACLU (discrimination / profiling cases, warrantless searches), church groups or other 'equal rights' groups, hoping to remind the country of the inalienable Constitutional rights every person has.

Fourth, a sudden awakening / industry in realizing that the country you were born in doesn't necessarily have to be the country you live in for the rest of your life. You fail the test / commit a felony? Suddenly, life in Canada (whether declaring asylum or going the legitimate route) might look better than life in the USA. Coming to Korea to, say, teach English, might be a more mainstream career option than it's ever been.

Since I'm a big fan of crazy ideas... What if we took any immigrant that just arrived and gave them one of the millions of foreclosed houses across the country, along with the financial support to make the place livable? They couldn't sell the place for X number of years, had to live in the place themselves, make specific improvements, and otherwise be a part of the community. I've seen what some immigrants can do with a scrap of opportunity.

Wow, this turned into a blog post... For more of what I usually talk about, check out http://chrisinsouthkorea.blogspot.com
(Yes, I'm an English teacher in Korea - and a big fan of your blog) :)

palladin said...

I really don't like your idea, specifically because it creates a caste system. And that like caste system, it could easily be bypassed and manipulated by the rich and affluent.

Of all the problems in the US, we're the still the nation where ANYONE can become something IF you put in the effort and hazard the difficulties. If anything, Americans have become lazy and too self-entitled so realize that America was built, brick by brick, by people wanting to create something better, greater for their children.

Another of the things that difference the US from other nations is our heterogeneous culture, most of cultures / countries can be defined within a specific cultural boundary. The US is a conglomeration of all the culture of all the immigrants who came here.

My ONE beef with current immigration is the sheer amount of ILLEGAL immigrants we have. No drivers license but still driving around, getting the free health-care (where legal working citizens get raped with medical bills) and so on. I'm all for creating a way to make then a legal part of our work force. And yes if you want to survive in America you NEED to speak English. Just imagine if someone wanted to become a Korean citizen and not learn Hangul, it simply wouldn't work. Heck those of us on a semi-permanent stay over here need to learn to speak a decent working Hangul to be able to enjoy and function in Korea.

As for "blood ties" its simple, I'm an American, I was born on American soil from American parents who where themselves born on American soil. And most importantly I served in my countries military, as did my father, my grand fathers, and all my brothers (service is a tradition in my family). Serving in your countries military qualifies you as a member of that country. In fact I know several foreign nations that gain US citizenship while in the US Military (takes only a few years and is quite easy). If ANYONE wants US citizenship, just join the Armed Forces. You'd be amazed at who they would take. Bad English, no problem, medical problems, there are waivers, criminal record, most of those can be waived off too. Its HARD to get rejected from the service, most who say they were didn't try hard enough.

the Korean said...

palladin,

You really have to realize that the Korean's proposal has exactly zero chance of happening. Talking about whether you like it or not is akin to talking about whether you would like the moon to be made out of cheddar cheese or swiss cheese.

But you do make a strong point that the Korean would agree with 100 percent: serving in America's military should be (and is) a sure way of proving your worth as an American citizen.

Brutus said...

Your proposal is nonsense... but what's really scary is that you're serious and want Korea to adopt a liberal open immigration policy and turn itself into a social basketcase like America and Western Europe with all its concomitant social problems. Your ancestors would weep! Having read your other post about how one can become a Korean citizen, I was quite surprised (and not in a good way) it's really that easy. Evidently, Korea is increasingly being infected with the leftist propoganda that open immigration is the enlightened choice of modern nations that should aspire towards (unworkable) multiculturalism. Very, very unfortunate... and we have Koreans like you proposing even more liberal measures than what already exists. Unbelievable.

the Korean said...

concomitant social problem like being the strongest, wealthiest, and best country in the world by attracting the best and the brightest of the world while stemming the tide of population decline that inevitably besets a wealthy country? Gee, the Korean will take that problem any day.

Brutus said...

America being the strongest, wealthiest and attracting the best and brightest are legacies of the past. America's heyday is behind it. We're still enjoying the fruits of yesterday's labour so let's not kid ourselves and imagine causation between current social realities with today's prosperity.

Let's not extrapolate population declines forever into the future. No people's population declines forever. Furthermore, what's wrong with a little population decline, anyways? Less human beings should be good for the environment.

the Korean said...

America being the strongest, wealthiest and attracting the best and brightest are legacies of the past. America's heyday is behind it.

Why so little faith in America? The immigrants certainly don't share your cynicism about America's future, given that they continue to come. Doesn't America belong to those who believe in it?

No people's population declines forever.

Read Collapse by Jared Diamond for numerous disproofs to that proposition.

Furthermore, what's wrong with a little population decline, anyways?

The fact that a smaller group of younger, working people will have to support the aging and non-working people, generally destroying competitiveness and wealth -- similar to what is happening in Japan and Western Europe.

Илья Казначеев said...

At the age of 18, every child as well as everyone in the world is eligible for the citizenship test, which asks basic questions about American history, geography, and civics.That's your confucianist ancestry reveals itself, I guess.

The idea that one's worth can be measured in a test... Insane!

But I agree, americans should try how imported democr^Wconfucianism does really taste.

~Me said...

I can't say that I agree with this but it has always been an internal conflict for me, as with so many other topics. I think these things are looked at from two very different perspectives when you are the first child born in America to your Korean father and the only recognized minority to your "Caucasian" mother's family. I parenthesize here because this is a self assigned classification on my maternal side. In reality they are a mixture mostly Native American and Irish. Being that the Irish features are more visible in some, the whole family claims to be Caucasian. This is another item that I'll never understand. I would like to say that I appreciate the perspectives you give and admire the amount of effort you put into them.

Galinaros said...

I praise your argument, Korean. As much as I would like to add my opinion, I believe I shouldn't. I could have easily fit into the said category of... what shall I say, nationalists? about a year ago. (Though nowhere near the extent of !)
Since then, I have drastically rethought my perspective and opinions. I cannot recall ever being racist against anyone, and my parents have taken on a similar ideology as what you claim to be your own.
However, I still believe I need some time before I go about 'preaching' my opinions.

Again, I applaud you on your argument. Well said. :)