-EDIT- Check out this week's Mexcian. There are some real doozies.
This is a bit old, but the demise of the immigration bill was disappointing to the Korean, so we will talk about it a little here. If you have no idea what this is about, here is an LA Times article.
In order to get a typical attitude of a person who opposed the bill, let us bring out an old friend, TexasFred, who wrote this steaming pile of crap about the Korean folks who drowned in Trinity River near Dallas because a 911 operator hung up on them multiple times:
Call me hard-hearted, but if you come to MY nation and spend over 20 years of YOUR life here, making money, enjoying the fruits of this land and ALL it has to offer and you don’t have the motivation to learn to speak English, or you don’t entertain the idea that after all that time you SHOULD become an American, to hell with you, I don’t care WHAT happens to you, you’re nothing but a leech on MY nation."
The Korean wanted to destroy that above sentence for some time, and now is as good a time as any.
The Korean’s point is simple: What makes America YOUR country, TexasFred?
Generally, if something is yours, you have worked for it. A car is yours if you paid for it. Same goes for anything that we own. What did you pay to get your American citizenship? Let me guess – you paid NOTHING. No effort was made on your part to make America “your” country. You were just lucky. Your mother was in America when you were born.
You paid taxes? Don’t be stupid. You didn’t pay taxes to get born, did you? IRS can do a lot of things, but it can’t come after you while you’re sitting your mother’s womb. Plus, if paying taxes were a valid criterion for citizenship, all illegal immigrants would get an amnesty right now. They pay taxes when they receive their pay, and they also pay sales tax when they buy anything. Heck, if taxes were enough, the amount of tax paid by Samsung Electronics and Hyundai Motors would be enough to turn every single Korean national into an American citizen.
On the other hand, immigrants always pay in order to make America theirs. They put up money, labor, and often their own lives (as we can see from the increasing number of Hispanics in the military in exchange for American citizenship.) Even the people who jump the border put more work to make it to America than you ever did. So how is your claim of ownership possibly better than an immigrant’s?
You may object this way (actually the Korean is certain that you do not have the wherewithal to make an objection like this, but he is being nice here): “It’s not ‘my’ country like ‘my’ car. It’s ‘my’ country like ‘my’ parents – an accidental inheritance to be sure, but there is a spiritual connection between me and the country in which I live.”
Nope. Make that argument if you are intent on giving America back to Native Americans. The “spiritual connection to the land” idea is shaky to begin with -- Koreans do this all the time, talking about how Korea deserves a bigger land mass because older Korean kingdoms occupied northeastern China for about 1000 years. Well, what about the other 1000 years when China occupied the same land? But even if one accepts the idea, the longest that any American (except Native Americans) has ever lived in this country is about 3 centuries, which is not nearly enough for anyone to seriously make a claim on the land. Most people in the world can claim their heritage in the same land for at least a millennium and a half, and a lot of those people don’t have their own country. (Take for example Kurds, Basques, Chechens, and Tibetans, not to mention Native Americans.)
Still another objection might be that immigrants might fundamentally change the “American culture”. So let’s look at American culture. Most of American music—jazz, rock and roll, R&B, and hip-hop—does not exist without immigrants (albeit forced) from Africa. The representative American foods such as hamburger, French fries and pizza are from Germany, Belgium, and Italy. The point is simple – what is left of American culture if we take away the immigrant influence? On the flip side, if something as wonderful as jazz and burger is waiting for us in the future by virtue of immigrant influence (like salsa and galbi, perhaps?), how is that not a reason to welcome more immigrants?
In fact, rejection of immigrants offends one of the core values of America: free market, and by corollary, free competition. Here is a really simple way of getting rid of all illegal immigrants—work harder than them! The Korean would love to see immigration opponents put their money where their mouth is, and line up to take all the jobs that immigrants tend to do. Nothing would be more delightful than Lou Dobbs climbing a tree to pick an orange, or being dragged through two years of bullshit lawsuit as a hapless drycleaner. Do you not like Mexicans mowing lawns? Do the same thing cheaper and better than Mexicans, and they will go away. Do you not like Asians dominating the engineering and medical fields? Maybe you should have done better during high school. You are no better than the little brat who takes the ball and goes home just because he keeps on losing, except the ball is not yours to begin with.
The proposed immigration bill isn’t bad because it does too much; it’s bad because it doesn’t do nearly enough. America belongs to those who recognize the country as the blessing and treasure that it is. If people are not committed to making America better, they don't belong in America. So here is the Korean’s proposal for immigration and citizenship policy.
It starts simple. All children born in U.S. or into American parents get a provisional citizenship until age 18. Their status won’t change much from as it is right now.
Anyone who fails to pass, or any full citizenship holder who commits a felony, receives a basic citizenship. Basic citizenship is similar to what illegal immigrants go through right now. Basic citizenship holders may stay in the U.S., and must pay taxes. (That’s right, illegal immigrants pay taxes too.) Basic citizens are generally eligible for full citizenship every time there is a citizenship exam. But they cannot receive any higher education, nor can they receive any medical insurance, publicly or privately. Constitutional rights are not quite suspended, but they operate at a lower level. For example, basic citizens can be searched for any reason whatsoever. They can also be detained for an extended period of time without being told the reason for detention. Medical care is of course not provided in detention. If you die while being locked up, too bad. (Check out the link. It’s really something.)
But here is the beauty of the Korean's proposal -- ANYONE in the world can come to America and immediately obtain basic citizenship, and they are eligible for the full citizenship exam just as much as anyone who is born in the U.S. Competition can sort out the rest. Full citizenship Americans will be the best and the brightest, and the basic citizenship Americans will be there to tend the gardens and flip burgers.
The proposal is still rough around the edges, but you get the idea. Do you want to call America YOUR country? You better earn it, pal. If you don’t know who John Roberts is or the fact that the President can’t cut taxes under the Constitution, (just a couple of things that all immigrants who take the citizenship exam know, and so many xenophobic "Americans" don't,) you probably don’t deserve to “come to MY nation and spend over 20 years of YOUR life here, making money, enjoying the fruits of this land and ALL it has to offer[.]” Idiot.
Got a question or comment for the Korean? Email away at askakorean@hotmail.com
Posts
Word. There are so many arguments against the kind of bullshit that people like that Texas guy spew that I sometimes forget this most basic one.
ReplyDeleteI love this idea that immigrants come to this country and "make money" and "enjoy the fruits of this land," as if cash is just pouring out of spigots all along the gold-paved streets for people to freely scoop up. Those "fruits" aren't just handed out at the border, they're earned, and for most immigrants it takes a hell of a lot more work to earn that dollar than is required of your average American-born citizen. Latino and Asian immigrants do most of the shittiest, most demanding labor in this country, and for the least amount of pay.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see what these anti-immigrant types would do if every single legal or illegal immigrant to this country suddenly were to vanish from existence for, say, one year. How quickly would they shit their pants in panic, once they realized that the comfortable lifestyle they enjoy was suddenly gone? If anything, it's the rest of America that makes money off of and enjoys the fruits of immigrant labor.
But here is the beauty of the Korean's proposal -- ANYONE in the world can come to America and immediately obtain basic citizenship, and they are eligible for the full citizenship exam just as much as anyone who is born in the U.S.
ReplyDeleteHow about if South Korea served as our test case for your proposal? My ancestors put a hell of a lot into this country, and I don't happen to have a spare, so I'd hate to see it blown on some bizarre social engineering project thought up by some resentful minority guy in a cubicle.
By the way, do you have even *a single* ancestor who so much as set one foot in North America before the 1965 Immigration Act? If not, you really need to pipe down.
The Korean would actually love it if all countries, including Korea, adopted the Korean's proposal actually. Because of Korea's much less restrictive immigration policy, Korea is (unwittingly, the Korean must admit,) closer to the Korean's proposal at any rate. Search this blog for Korea's immigration policy, if you are curious.
ReplyDeleteThe Korean will also have you know that he has a beautiful office of his own that overlooks the skyline of Manhattan.
But most importantly, you just proved the Korean's point. What do your ancestors have anything to do with YOUR status in America? The Korean can understand the argument that what your parents/guardians do on your behalf when you were a minor has bearings on you because you were too young to act on your own. But beyond that? Why does that matter one bit?
If the "arrival order" mattered, people of the Mayflower Society should have the final say in everything important in America. But clearly that's not the case, and the Korean doubts you would advocate for that case.
Your argument, then, boils down to: "My ancestors were here before yours, although there are a lot of people ahead of my ancestors. But we are going to stop the line right behind me, because I don't want to share what I got through the accident of my inheritance."
The Korean cannot think many more un-American statements than that.
The Korean, I think I can say with certainty that a substantial segment of the Korean population would be deeply disturbed if the population of their country had become over the course of a few decades, say, one-fifth non-Korean - particularly if this one-fifth were not even East Asian. It's easy to say "hey, look at how open Korea is," when in fact, Korean openness has not actually been tested. It's an utterly empty bluff. Tell me, what fraction of the South Korean population is non-Korean?
ReplyDeleteI also suspect you're not a very typical Korean. The typical Korean says “blood” is the most important criterion defining Korea, and that the Korea nation has a *single* bloodline. http://tinyurl.com/d2uxym. Do you think by “blood” and “bloodline” the survey-takers and respondents actually meant “ability to work hard and compete economically, and irrespective of national origin, race and ethnic identity?” Or did they just mean "blood" and "bloodline?"
Chris,
ReplyDeleteEverything you said is absolutely correct. Koreans would generally be disturbed. Koreans by and large believe in the bloodline idea. Also, the Korean is not a very typical Korean.
But the Korean never once said that he was representing what Korean people thought. He cannot see how you got that impression. This post is clearly about the Korean's own opinion. If you wish to argue against the Korean's viewpoint, the Korean would welcome it. But talking about what a typical Korean person thinks misses the point entirely.
So we agree that Koreans feel a strong bond between Korean blood and soil. But you seem to also say that such a feeling is inappropriate among white Americans.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that you would like to deny that bond in America because you, on one hand, are an American citizen, with all the rights as any other American, but on the other hand you are a member of a very recently arrived, and very different, ethnic group. It's in your interest to go on about how America is a "nation of immigrants."
It's also in your own group's interest to keep Korea populated by ethnic Koreans. After all, what ethnic group wants to make itself disappear by mass immigration? Can you imagine Korea being willing to let in a few million Africans or South Americans, even if they were the only smartest and most industrious among them? Hell no.
From what you've said, it sounds as if YOU, the Korean, would be willing for that to happen in S. Korea, despite knowing that the people would be against it. Is this the case?
Chris,
ReplyDeleteSo we agree that Koreans feel a strong bond between Korean blood and soil. But you seem to also say that such a feeling is inappropriate among white Americans.
That's exactly what the Korean is saying. The Korean is also saying that such feeling is inappropriate for Koreans as well.
It's in your interest to go on about how America is a "nation of immigrants."
Yes. But the Korean believes that it is in America's interest as well.
It's also in your own group's interest to keep Korea populated by ethnic Koreans.
The Korean does not believe that it is in Korean people's interest to keep Korea populated only by ethnic Koreans, whether they realize this or not at this point.
From what you've said, it sounds as if YOU, the Korean, would be willing for that to happen in S. Korea, despite knowing that the people would be against it. Is this the case?
Yes.
Ok, I get it. You are something of a Utopian. I don't think the the world will ever get there. Evolution and Nature won't go along.
ReplyDeleteThe Korean doubts that the world will ever get there either. But it never hurts to dream.
ReplyDeleteThe regime that lords over half of your people over in Asia was also born of Utopianism. But at least they gave it a shot, didn't they. After all, what are a few famines, a breakup of a country, and the perpetual poverty and starvation of millions compared to the opportunity pursue an idealistic dream?
ReplyDeleteWTF? Are you seriously implying that the Korean supports that regime, or that his dream is anything similar to that "dream?"
DeleteAs much as I like the idea of 'basic' or 'full' citizenship, I hesitate in light of the current economy. Yes, of course, I know you wrote this quite some time ago before the economy went to pot.
ReplyDeleteI presume a few different things would being happening: first,
too many people looking for work and not enough jobs to go around. That probably leads to a dramatic increase in welfare / unemployment claims - which would be handled differently based on your citizenship status. Would we give more assistance to the 'full' citizen or the 'basic' citizen?
Second, a dramatic increase in small businesses opening up, or businesses that support small businesses (eBay, Vistaprint in the printing world, etc.). Some businesses would also certainly be wonderful additions to any community - or increase crime / drugs / piracy. I imagine the citizenship test prep class would sell out quickly, however - and may even increase educational standards in some areas of the country (Teachers threatening, "You don't want to fail the test, do you?!" would probably be more effective than most other threats).
Third, a slew of lawsuits from groups like the ACLU (discrimination / profiling cases, warrantless searches), church groups or other 'equal rights' groups, hoping to remind the country of the inalienable Constitutional rights every person has.
Fourth, a sudden awakening / industry in realizing that the country you were born in doesn't necessarily have to be the country you live in for the rest of your life. You fail the test / commit a felony? Suddenly, life in Canada (whether declaring asylum or going the legitimate route) might look better than life in the USA. Coming to Korea to, say, teach English, might be a more mainstream career option than it's ever been.
Since I'm a big fan of crazy ideas... What if we took any immigrant that just arrived and gave them one of the millions of foreclosed houses across the country, along with the financial support to make the place livable? They couldn't sell the place for X number of years, had to live in the place themselves, make specific improvements, and otherwise be a part of the community. I've seen what some immigrants can do with a scrap of opportunity.
Wow, this turned into a blog post... For more of what I usually talk about, check out http://chrisinsouthkorea.blogspot.com
(Yes, I'm an English teacher in Korea - and a big fan of your blog) :)
I really don't like your idea, specifically because it creates a caste system. And that like caste system, it could easily be bypassed and manipulated by the rich and affluent.
ReplyDeleteOf all the problems in the US, we're the still the nation where ANYONE can become something IF you put in the effort and hazard the difficulties. If anything, Americans have become lazy and too self-entitled so realize that America was built, brick by brick, by people wanting to create something better, greater for their children.
Another of the things that difference the US from other nations is our heterogeneous culture, most of cultures / countries can be defined within a specific cultural boundary. The US is a conglomeration of all the culture of all the immigrants who came here.
My ONE beef with current immigration is the sheer amount of ILLEGAL immigrants we have. No drivers license but still driving around, getting the free health-care (where legal working citizens get raped with medical bills) and so on. I'm all for creating a way to make then a legal part of our work force. And yes if you want to survive in America you NEED to speak English. Just imagine if someone wanted to become a Korean citizen and not learn Hangul, it simply wouldn't work. Heck those of us on a semi-permanent stay over here need to learn to speak a decent working Hangul to be able to enjoy and function in Korea.
As for "blood ties" its simple, I'm an American, I was born on American soil from American parents who where themselves born on American soil. And most importantly I served in my countries military, as did my father, my grand fathers, and all my brothers (service is a tradition in my family). Serving in your countries military qualifies you as a member of that country. In fact I know several foreign nations that gain US citizenship while in the US Military (takes only a few years and is quite easy). If ANYONE wants US citizenship, just join the Armed Forces. You'd be amazed at who they would take. Bad English, no problem, medical problems, there are waivers, criminal record, most of those can be waived off too. Its HARD to get rejected from the service, most who say they were didn't try hard enough.
palladin,
ReplyDeleteYou really have to realize that the Korean's proposal has exactly zero chance of happening. Talking about whether you like it or not is akin to talking about whether you would like the moon to be made out of cheddar cheese or swiss cheese.
But you do make a strong point that the Korean would agree with 100 percent: serving in America's military should be (and is) a sure way of proving your worth as an American citizen.
Your proposal is nonsense... but what's really scary is that you're serious and want Korea to adopt a liberal open immigration policy and turn itself into a social basketcase like America and Western Europe with all its concomitant social problems. Your ancestors would weep! Having read your other post about how one can become a Korean citizen, I was quite surprised (and not in a good way) it's really that easy. Evidently, Korea is increasingly being infected with the leftist propoganda that open immigration is the enlightened choice of modern nations that should aspire towards (unworkable) multiculturalism. Very, very unfortunate... and we have Koreans like you proposing even more liberal measures than what already exists. Unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteconcomitant social problem like being the strongest, wealthiest, and best country in the world by attracting the best and the brightest of the world while stemming the tide of population decline that inevitably besets a wealthy country? Gee, the Korean will take that problem any day.
ReplyDeleteAmerica being the strongest, wealthiest and attracting the best and brightest are legacies of the past. America's heyday is behind it. We're still enjoying the fruits of yesterday's labour so let's not kid ourselves and imagine causation between current social realities with today's prosperity.
ReplyDeleteLet's not extrapolate population declines forever into the future. No people's population declines forever. Furthermore, what's wrong with a little population decline, anyways? Less human beings should be good for the environment.
America being the strongest, wealthiest and attracting the best and brightest are legacies of the past. America's heyday is behind it.
ReplyDeleteWhy so little faith in America? The immigrants certainly don't share your cynicism about America's future, given that they continue to come. Doesn't America belong to those who believe in it?
No people's population declines forever.
Read Collapse by Jared Diamond for numerous disproofs to that proposition.
Furthermore, what's wrong with a little population decline, anyways?
The fact that a smaller group of younger, working people will have to support the aging and non-working people, generally destroying competitiveness and wealth -- similar to what is happening in Japan and Western Europe.
At the age of 18, every child as well as everyone in the world is eligible for the citizenship test, which asks basic questions about American history, geography, and civics.That's your confucianist ancestry reveals itself, I guess.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that one's worth can be measured in a test... Insane!
But I agree, americans should try how imported democr^Wconfucianism does really taste.
I can't say that I agree with this but it has always been an internal conflict for me, as with so many other topics. I think these things are looked at from two very different perspectives when you are the first child born in America to your Korean father and the only recognized minority to your "Caucasian" mother's family. I parenthesize here because this is a self assigned classification on my maternal side. In reality they are a mixture mostly Native American and Irish. Being that the Irish features are more visible in some, the whole family claims to be Caucasian. This is another item that I'll never understand. I would like to say that I appreciate the perspectives you give and admire the amount of effort you put into them.
ReplyDeleteI praise your argument, Korean. As much as I would like to add my opinion, I believe I shouldn't. I could have easily fit into the said category of... what shall I say, nationalists? about a year ago. (Though nowhere near the extent of !)
ReplyDeleteSince then, I have drastically rethought my perspective and opinions. I cannot recall ever being racist against anyone, and my parents have taken on a similar ideology as what you claim to be your own.
However, I still believe I need some time before I go about 'preaching' my opinions.
Again, I applaud you on your argument. Well said. :)
I disagree with this proposal. Not completely, but I disagree on the part you talk about the rights of Basic Citizens. If you create a cast system like that, it's never going to work, because people in the bottom will feel opresed and desperate. They will be allways struggling to get a Full Citizenship, so they can get an insurance or have minimum rights. And a country with mostly full citizens wouldn't work, because then no-one will be a waiter. I think everyone should be treated with respect and have access to universal healthcare. If they are paying taxes, there is no reason why they shouldn't get some advantage for it. Also, imagine the infinite personal trouble there will be if diferent members in one family obtain diferent kind of citizenships with so many differences in the treatment the government and the rest of Full citizens would give them.
ReplyDeleteI think restricting the benefits for the basic citizens could work, as long as they don't see their basic needs compromised. For example, I would give Full citizens the right to vote, and access to high education. Also, any job which has to do with the administration of the country, could only be taken by full citizens.
Also, I wouldn't make an exam about just how much one knows about the country. I would test everyone's capacity to reason, to use logic and to think for themselves. Otherwise, you can't be a full citizen.
This will leave us with two type of citizens: the lower part, for all this people who don't mind doing factory jobs for all their lifes, and has no aspiration of adquiring any university degree (most of the people would be fine with some money to have their houses and party at the weekends).
In the other hand we will have the full citizens, who have right to vote and decide how to run their country, because their are capable of thinking by themselves, and they are aware what a government can do. Also, they will not think their country is the only one in the world, they could see how politics work globally and take decisions in consequence. Also, they will have access to university and a lot of scolarships and diferent high level jobs.
Also, I would add that someone who is more than two years without working or studying without a justified cause (like illness or a city recovering from a natural disaster), would lose both citizenships, because if one person isn't good enough even for a mcDonalds... I don't know what will I do with the no-citizens... I would bring them to work camps, if they have no other country to go, and after a year of service they can take another exam again. I think this would prevent poverty and the things poverty vs. wealth brings: robbing, stealing, assaulting...
I think this sounds a lot more dictatorial than I would like to, but if you picture it... It could work for both types of citizens. The only thing to take care of is full citizens not to take advantage of the working force, aka, the basic citizens.
PS: I'm Spanish, so I don't have anything to do with USA or Korea. I just liked the debate. Sorry for the long comment, I hope is not too boring. :P
ReplyDeleteThe Korean's proposal could be tested piecemeal. Two or more countries could agree to the provisional/basic/full scheme for, say, 20 years. It'd be an interesting experiment.
ReplyDeleteWe as "true" Americans can continue complaining but as long as the American big wigs are allowing this to happen there's really nothing we can do about it. I was stationed in Korea for two years in the U.S. Army and I can most definitely say that we are not welcome there by most of the younger and older generations that I've come in contact with(the older generation including those who remember the Korean War like it was yesterday) But two wrongs dont make a right. I am a black man who's ancestors have been here long before me contributing to what this countries trade and economy is today (which I might add is poor) and it does piss me off that I have to pay taxes and the "visitors" dont. But if you do want two wrongs to make a right and you wanna cry that much about this issue just go their country and do what they're doing to us over here.. It still wont get you anywhere Lol
ReplyDeleteAnd oh yeah my wife is a natural born 100% Korean so I am not biased one bit.
LOL!
ReplyDelete... from utter space there is just one earth ... we tend to pretend that we own certain parts of land, but guess what? we don't, we born and we die, no matter if its in texas, manhattan, madrid or seul, we don't take these pieces of land with us, what is more, the land we are buried in, claims us as if we were part of that land, no the other way round ...
didn't you see the avatar? LOL!
These arguments are all avoiding the real issue. Immigration is not the real problem for Americans'. There was no immigration policy put in place to stem the flow of European immigration.
ReplyDeleteThere was never a "head tax" put on any European immigrants. If some of you are unaware, the U.S government passed legislation to prevent more Chinese immigrants from entering the country. Australia and Canada passed similar legislation against the Chinese.
This was back in the 1800's, when there were large numbers of European immigrants entering the U.S. Legislation against Chinese immigration was not repealed until 1947 in the U.S (please check date, year might be off).
The Chinese that came in the 1800's built the railroads. The railroad companies then paid gunmen to cull their numbers. Black historians even agree that it was fortunate that African slaves had a monetary value. If they had not been property, the same thing would have happened to them.
There were laws put in place that made it illegal for Chinese men to employ white females. The U.S passed laws that prohibited Chinese men from certain types of jobs, and denied U.S citizenship. Many were just killed, ever hear the saying "not a China mans' chance".
There are too many examples to list here, but if there is any doubt, all this past legislation is easily accessible.
My point is that no matter what Asians' do for this country (America), we will never be given credit, it will all be forgotten about. There is a Korean-American lawyer in California who wrote an article and she used the term "Constant foreigner" to describe what it was to be an Asian American.
My point is this. The one thing I know is human nature. These new immigration policies basically have the same underlying purpose. Whenever there is immigration coming into the western parts of the U.S there is legislation.
No one seems to mention how many illegal Russians' there are in the U.S, and the questionable activities that they're involved in. I never hear white Americans' being critical about them.
And to all the idiots who say that illegal aliens are a drain on American society, WTF. How can an illegal alien receive social welfare, scholarships, government housing, medicare or even proper jobs.
I know most Koreans' live in large urban areas, where its cosmopolitan and culturally diverse. the rest or majority of America is not like this.
If there are any Chinese-Americans', WTF why does a Korean-American have to defend you. You're complacent attitudes make all Asians' look weak.
And to all Korean-Americans' VOTE, go and vote. If you don't like the laws being passed or rejected go and F#&*ing vote.
(No time to check my grammar, gotta go to work)
Old thread, but I'll reply anyway. What is the real problem with amnesty for illegal immigrants? They are criminals. They are in the country illegally. We should not reward criminal behavior (and encourage more of the same).
ReplyDeleteI am not opposed to changes in the current immigration policies, but we should not make any new policy retroactive so that current illegals will benefit. Illegals immigrants have defied the laws of thier host country, and do not deserve any leniency or amnesty.
Illegal immigrants are criminals like jaywalkers are criminals. The immigration laws are arbitrary, nonsensical and contrary to American interest. Illegal immigrants surely must face some blame, but the blame cannot be big. They can pay a fine, for example, and it should be fine.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey, I like your idea except the part where you say "Anyone who passes will receive a full citizenship for two years."
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean that there is a nationwide test every two years? Just think about crowded polling places during elections and recognize that it's an activity that takes 10 minutes to complete. Remember also that usually it's about 30% of the population that votes.
I'm all for making everyone pass the citizenship test as a requirement to graduate from high school, but to implement the test to everyone in the nation for two years is more than unfeasible.
But the idea of it is genius. Think of all the REAL AMERICANS who would find that they don't deserve to be Americans on account that they don't even know how their own country works.
HI. I strongly agree with you in the part where you mention that if the people in the United States don't want Hispanic people, and other immigrants, to take over, then they should work harder and better. I, myself, can relate to that. My whole family can. I was born in Mexico and raised for a while there. Then just like a lot of other families, we immigrated. My father came first, and he worked very, very hard day and night. He started out with nothing, and now were a middle class family that travels regularly. All because we work hard and do our best in absolutely everything. But when some snobby person who was born here in the United States claims that we are taking over and ruining their country, we become enraged. Just wait and see what happens when they don't have us here to do the jobs they're too picky about.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this post, and I'm sorry if my comment does not make much sense. ^_^
This reminds me of a line from Starship Troopers (1997).
ReplyDeleteCitizenship is reserved only for those who have served 2 years in the military. This is because social responsibility requires being prepared to make individual sacrifice. This is opposed to democracies of the 20th century, which according to the novel, collapsed because "people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted... and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears."
"Nope. Make that argument if you are intent on giving America back to Native Americans."
ReplyDeleteThe US, obviously, wasn't a Native-American Nation. An example of a Native-American Nation would the Apache Nation. You could make an argument that the US was developed, built, and grown on x-Native American Land, and that that land was not properly acquired -- but that would make for an argument to compensate those Native Americans -- not for you to freely get a piece of this nation.
As a white Anglo-Saxon whose ancestor came over on a boat as an indentured servant 150 years before the revolution, I believe it is ignorant, and rude, to scapegoat immigrants for the problems the U. S. faces. Tonight, as I work late, procrastinate on this website (which I love, btw), and dread the takeover by the teabaggers in tomorrow’s election, I find it even more ignorant and rude to refer to Mexican immigrants as illegal.
ReplyDeleteTexas, California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, and parts of Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, and Wyoming were part of Mexico. Just because we stole it fair and square from them after the Mexican-American War does not mean we should be rude and ban them from it. We certainly should not refer to them as illegal, especially when they come here to help do the work we are too lazy to do. It is their homeland too. And they’re taking it back, one Mexican at a time. I would do the same if someone stole my land from me.
I like your analogy of the little brat taking the ball home because he keeps on losing. Except take it one step further: The little American brat takes the Mexican kid’s ball and says, “It’s mine now!” When the Mexican kid tries to take it back, the American kid calls the cops and has him arrested for “illegal” actions.
We took the area through war, we should follow up with restricting it from the Mexicans...or else what's the use of taking land?
DeleteIf we know Mexicans are attempting to take back the land, why should the US be stopped from preventing that?
If you know I'm plotting to steal your hot wife, you see me buying her presents and giving her the attention you are too lazy to give, would you just let it happen? Would you just say, oh well, let's divorce, you can have half my money, take my kids (for additional labor) and bang my hot (ex)wife in the living room? I guess you would given your statement above. You don't care about your money, your wife, your kids, your family. You shouldn't have married in the first place. Well, America does care about Texas, California, and all the other parts of the Union. The US fought a war, killed and was killed for it, and they damn well care about it.
The USA is the authority and makes the law. You can't object to calling them illegal immigrants, they are illegal immigrants. You can complain about the policy that makes them illegal.
First, I must say: Robert, I like you. ^_^ Your post was well-said and I agree with it in every aspect.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I agree wholeheartedly with The Korean. I don't know how many time I want to slap someone when they mention how it's unfair that these 'illegals' can come and become citizens while they're at home, collecting unemployment because they're too lazy to find a new job and they got fired from their old one because they called their boss at McDonald's a 'Fascist Dictator' because said boss told them that they had to stay for their whole shift.
I must admit, I'm an odd one in that I think that we should open our doors to everyone. If they're willing to come over here and work hard, go for it! ^_^ You get what you have because you're willing to work for it. And before some other latecomer proclaims that I'm just some spoiled white girl, I'm an Irish-Native American mixer who had a full-time job in high school, who's worked two jobs and lived in the back of a truck (at the same time) for a few months in the winter, hasn't lived with her parents since she was 19 (even though they tried to convince me to move back home during the truck episode) and who is now going to college at the semi-experienced age of 29 and acing all of her classes, including two language courses and is self-studying Korean. If you aren't willing to work for what you have, you don't deserve it, and using that particular model, a good portion of 'legal' Americans really don't deserve much of anything.
Oh, and I'd really love to know where these 'illegals' are getting their free health care, because I have two jobs and still can't afford it. Palladin, want to help me out on this one?
Stop working, apply for Medicaid, apply for charity at organizations like Catholic Charity, you can get free health care. Tzu Chi has free clinics in many major cities and provides free medical treatment if they decide you deserve it.
DeleteGo to the ER, live a life of need so that the welfare state takes care of you.
Illegals may not get all their health needs taken care of, but they can some and with over 10 million illegals, that adds up to a lot of money each year.
You may not think it is ethical to do so, and I applaud you to avoid it.
Dear The Korean, I'm a French litterature teacher (so as a fellow non-native English speaker, do spare me your anger if/when you spot some mispelling or syntax mistakes).
ReplyDeleteI discovered your blog about a week ago, and have been reading it regularly since then.
I've dated a Korean man a few years back, and lived in Korea as an exchange student for about a year, so I do take an interest about most of the things you tell us about Korea through your blog.
I've been tempted many times to write comments on your posts, but didn't until now.
Unlike many people who read your blog asking you advice on how to attract/date/marry a Korean man, my favorite posts tend to be about politics and society issues, and I think this post about immigration and citizenship is quite interesting. I do not agree with everything you say, even though I share many of your ideas, but I must acknowledge that even though I sometimes disagree with you on some particular points, you have a knack for words (I say this in a positive way).
I read your other post about learning how to speak english, and I thank you for going through the ordeal of learning it so well. My korean skills are quite poor (they are good enaugh to watch some korean drama, but not barely good enaugh to have a proper conversation about any interesting and complex subject). If you didn't spend time learning english, I would not have been able to know what you think about the world, and it would have been a pity!
Now that this is done, I have to say that even though I completely agree with you on the ideas that immigration brings more good that bad (in most of the cases), and that people can't claim they own the country, I do think your proposal about having everyone in America take citenzhip tests holds a latent danger. I don't want to make assumptions and blame you for something you did not actually say but what about people who are metally disabled? According to what I've understood of your proposal (as I've already mentionned, I'm not a native speaker), only the smart would pass the tests and be recognized as full citizens. According to their etymologies, "democracy" : is a system of government by the people ; "plutocracy": is a system of government by the rich; "gerontocracy":is a system of government by the elderly... The system you propose is a kind of "intelektocracy" (I know it's a neologism), it is elitist, it only acknowledges the smart. As a teacher, I do value academic achievement a lot, but as the same time, I know that not all the kids I teach are "smart". Some do poorly in school. You could argue that most of the students who do poorly didn't study enaugh. Most of the time, it's true! But I have some students who are really nice kids, who do study and try their best, and still get only red marks... People aren't equall when it comes to doing well in school. You have different kind of intelligences, and you also have mentally disabled people. The system you propose has lots of benefits: it does prevent people from uttering racist comments when they don't bring any good to the country, it does allow many people to get the American citizenship, it does push people to study, but it also has a pitfall in that it doesn't erase the fact you will still get second-class citizens. I somewhat feel you're angry at uneducated racists and want to give them a taste of their own medicine, having them experience what immigrants go through. I can fully understand that, but I just wanted to show you that even though it would be fun, I don't think it's a good idea.
I read somewhere that you read every comment (I don't know where you find the time to do it, but still hope it's true). I hope there are not too many typos, Jos.
As a Singaporean, the nation tt I lived in is made up of 4 races, namely Chinese, Malay , Indians and Eurasians. There are smaller communities in our midst, including Japanese, Koreans, Americans etc. There is no one face tt could represent our nation. Our nation is young and has been through crisises. Recently, there's also issues about who can be considered a Singaporean? Those who migrate into Singapore after she has prospers or those who have been with Singapore through thick and thin or the generations that are simply born and grew up here?
ReplyDeleteI am so annoyed by xenophobes here that think that are Americans. If you look it up in an unabridged, respectable dictionary, you will find that the term denotes the out "copper-skinned" inhabitants of these continents found by the Europeans. I am not saying that foreigners who come to this country should not be welcomed or given the opportunity to live a better life, but saying that these "gringos" need to stop pretending like they are indigenous to the continents that make up America or the land that makes up this country.
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