tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post6905133601249595146..comments2024-03-18T07:07:53.346-04:00Comments on Ask a Korean!: Affirmative Action and Asian Americans: the Korean's TakeT.K. (Ask a Korean!)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-44776122632650081222016-04-04T00:08:15.672-04:002016-04-04T00:08:15.672-04:002016 -- No longer uses SAT for college admission.2016 -- No longer uses SAT for college admission.cici nomadenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383456047746882305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-65357056452939973402016-04-03T23:55:02.233-04:002016-04-03T23:55:02.233-04:00I'm glad at least finally SOMEONE says they...I'm glad at least finally SOMEONE says they're going to a certain school to fulfill their own dreams, not their momma's dreams. I was getting worried for a while.cici nomadenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383456047746882305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-71280659809358146262013-10-27T06:00:25.090-04:002013-10-27T06:00:25.090-04:00I disagree. Racial makeup of the college populatio...I disagree. Racial makeup of the college population should not mimic the racial makeup of the US as a whole. It is unrealistic to expect this of any industry or isolated group. Is it unfair that black people dominate basketball? Is it unfair that Jewish people dominate Nobel prizes in sciences? There is a reason. Sterotypes can be ugly and ridiculous but sometimes, they hold some truth. As shown by SAT scores and other evidence, Asian people hit the books better than anyone else. Combine that with all the other applicable achievements and a reverence for academics and education, and it's only reasonable that Asian people should dominate colleges. How is it fair that Jewish people make up 2% of the population but can make up as much as 75% of a college population? Should we add a new "Jewish" category to "races" and place a 2% race quota on Jewish people, like on Asians people?<br /><br />Colleges should reserve a small proportion of acceptances to applicants from low socioeconomic backgrounds, but race should not be a factor, especially when the applicant is an American citizen. If colleges become Asian-dominated, so be it. What are we afraid of? Are colleges really disadvantaged by a large Asian population? Especially when many Asians in college these days, are naturalized American citizens, some with multiple generations of living in the states. Is it because they are seen as less American, than white Americans? And what about those who are adopted, raised by non-Asian households. Are they Asian? Should they be included in the quota? Even though they probably have a different up-bringing than someone raised in an Asian household?<br /><br />However, I do not think college admissions should become race-blind as they give insight into the whole picture of an individual applicant. I am against legacy and race quotas. I am for making admissions more of a meritocracy. If Asian population shoots to 50%, so be it. And I do think we should reserve a small % of admissions for those from low socioeconomic backgrounds as stated earlier, regardless of race. Even though most of those disadvantaged applicants end up dropping out and not completing their degrees... The idealist in me still persists.<br /><br />And speaking of SAT scores... SAT scores are unfairly criticized. More than anything, especially for technical majors, they are a great early challenge that mimics that in technical courses: studying from a book/class and then taking a multiple choice test. Yes, great students might do poorly but as long as SAT scores are used to include rather than exclude a potential candidate, then they will be around for a long time. This is from someone who had a shit GPA but great SAT scores and extracurriculars. SATs gave me a chance to prove myself and now I have close to a 4.0 in college.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-62898004784824517842013-02-14T05:28:51.970-05:002013-02-14T05:28:51.970-05:00Do you really think that students at schools that ...Do you really think that students at schools that don't use affirmative action are missing out on anything in regards to learning how to interact with other races? I'm sure the average graduate from UCI is smart enough to know how to treat all races with respect and not discriminate/stereotype against them; you don't need to go to a "diverse" school to know that. it really is common sense for the most part, especially if all these people grew up in the US. I'm pretty sure if Ivies dropped affirmative action, their students wouldn't miss out on much either. If a school wanted diversity, they would be more concerned with the number of international students they have as opposed to the racial makeup of its American students. this is especially important in an increasingly globalized world. It's topics such as this that reminds us all just how insular and ignorant many Americans are of the rest of the world; 75% of the US is white, so it's okay for a college to be 75% white and not be considered non-diverse? You do know that worldwide, only about 20% of all people are white? by that logic, any university with over 20% whites has too many whites and should start redlining the white student population. Also, keep in mind that many students may end up self-segregating anyways, so regardless of how many students of another race are present, they may still end up keeping to their own race. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. and even if they did self-segregate, it'd be okay because if they ever did have to deal with those of another race, they'd be able to simply out of common courtesy. just because they don't doesn't mean they can't.<br /><br />When I was in school, I always got excited when I met an exchange student from another country, much moreso than when I met a fellow American student of another race. I really don't see what I have to learn by being around AMERICANS of a different race. It's kind of redundant. Another nationality, sure. But not those from the same country as me. To be honest, I find most parts of the US to be boring anyways, and the key to being prepared for the future lies with learning more about the rest of the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-39028076109395704972011-08-27T23:25:17.768-04:002011-08-27T23:25:17.768-04:00There is a lot of diversity within the label "...There is a lot of diversity within the label "white" people use, just as there is among the "Asian" category. I get the commenters' points, but don't be so dismissive of "white," as if there is no diversity among the "white" experience.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07149708954524602455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-32940585706247381202011-04-20T22:48:43.980-04:002011-04-20T22:48:43.980-04:00Because America as a whole is about 75 percent whi...Because America as a whole is about 75 percent white. Students need to learn what it's like to live in a society like that. <br /><br />I don't like that answer. Look at our lives from a worldview perspective. Look at Asia (China) rising above. This world is NOT 75% White.AsianMovementhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07944456722133884874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-42527562980795975492011-02-18T23:14:07.428-05:002011-02-18T23:14:07.428-05:00A campus that is 100% Asian-American would be a lo...A campus that is 100% Asian-American would be a lot more diverse than many American universities that are between 90-100% white...and diversity in America is a myth, as Prof. Nancy Abelmann discusses in "The Intimate University." Universities should be 75% white because America is 75% white? that is pretty lame. then why isn't the Senate 75% white? U.S. universities' admissions is a microcosm of America's history of race management, a work still in progress that still needs many, many more changes.An Indiana Fobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01974532947819615013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-10632861226363350912011-02-10T09:37:51.863-05:002011-02-10T09:37:51.863-05:00@Julie: I agree with you about how beneficial mak...@Julie: I agree with you about how beneficial making "the choice" you did was in college. Meeting and accepting new friends of different racial backgrounds forces your mind to a person (no matter their race) for who he or she is as a person. This allows us to differentiate from the stereotypical ethnic personality standard by measuring our friend's own behavior against it. Thus, we are training our minds to allow for exception from accepted racial behavioral standards. The prejudice in our minds this way can slowly be changed.<br /><br />@JanXKnits: <br /><br />"So what if a school has a predominate Asian population? There are countless women only and black colleges and universities. Why should whites be the only ones able to dominate in student body represenation and population? Because they are white?"<br /><br />I couldn't disagree with you more. One of the main reasons that elite universities are just that is because they have racial diversity in their student body. Whites are not the only race that gets to dominate a university's racial profile. There are all or nearly all black schools that do that in the U.S. Woman's schools too. If someone wants to have an all Asian school go for it! Good luck getting the high SAT scoring Asians too attend....haha. They will want to go to these elite universities that red line Asians. I pity students that go to all or predominately anything schools because of the experiences and non-classroom learning their students will be deprived of. <br />Lower ranked schools that want to be all/predominantly Black, White, Asian, Male, Female, Gay, Christian, Muslim, Transgender, Transvestite, whatever way you want to filter to admit students... can still exist. However, chances are the schools that allow for the most diverse range of race and by extension cultural background and frame of thought will probably be the highest ranked. Why is that?...<br />I think it is because even though it is human nature to "be around your own kind", the fact that two different races have to share space in everyday life makes it more likely that each group will learn something about the other's thinking, culture, and behavior whether they choose to or not. Those experiences are invaluable assets in the real world which does just the same in forcing the races to interact with one another whether we choose to or not. These experiences probably make students' smarter in a number of ways. Students or races of people that isolate themselves to any other race except their own lose out in the end on human progress and technological development. There are too many examples in history to cite (and I am digressing as it). <br /><br />It is so interesting how the race wars play out. One minority may be discriminated against in one culture and not like that experience while all the time bemoaning how unfair and wrong discrimination is. Then, the true test comes when the tables are turned.. I notice that a lot people somehow forget that idea of fairness and equality when their race is in the favored position and they are no longer the minority. The motto then becomes "well, that is just how things are"... or any other excuse to maintain their societal position. <br />Funny how biased, bigoted, and hypocritical all races are when their own interests are at stake....The Aloof Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15163753137944172460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-24239896257408859192010-03-21T23:28:44.678-04:002010-03-21T23:28:44.678-04:00Interesting post. I have been told to inject into ...Interesting post. I have been told to inject into these discussions that redlining of asian americans has less to do with affirmative action than negative action, which is keeping the asian americans out. Where slots that AA's are kept from due to discrimination dont' go to other minorities; most likely, it will go to a white person. Also, yea like everyone said the 20% Legacy thing is huge too. <br /><br />My most important point is that diversity does not have to suffer from AA enrollment rising to 20-30%. Learning to interact with a diverse group of people is left to the individual. If we look at it from the other side, white students in white majority colleges (almost all) hanging out with almost all white students. I would not say this would seriously negatively impact their success later in life. Asian americans must more importantly learn to interact with white students even if one has mostly asian friends because that will be the workplace majority (like in the Korean's case) In the future, when hispanic numbers are really high thats ok. they will end up acting like white people anyway in the workplace. Maybe learning spanish would be good for the real world. but emphasis should be placed in hanging out and schmoozing with white students (don't become a banana/twinkie) but don't exclusively hang out w/ asians. <br /><br />Korean grocers have faced racial violence. <br /><br />I thought this other article was interesting: <a rel="nofollow">http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-02-25/entertainment/17955268_1_asian-americans-jewish-applicants-admissions</a><br /><br />I don't feel as though my test taking abilities or interest in science was due to parental pressure, though i must acknowledge their nurture, support and parenting. I mean students start taking multiple choice tests at a very young age; its a lot of practice leading up to the SATs and other tests. <br /><br />standardized testing is not perfect but diminishing testing in american education will lead to lower quality in the actual academic caliber of students in a student body. ideally, you'd admit high scoring, well rounded students who excel in other areas without redlining asians. revamping the content, format or discriminatory aspects of the sat will not diminish asian performance on the test in the long run. Test taking is a skill; practice makes perfect. Changing the test just changes how you prepare.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14477659794526123231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-13559998589287348202010-03-15T10:03:08.341-04:002010-03-15T10:03:08.341-04:00Really? "getting lynched" is your only m...<b>Really? "getting lynched" is your only measurement of oppression?</b><br /><br />No. The Korean never wrote "only". But it is "a" measure, as the Korean wrote previously.<br /><br /><b>When was the last time someone was actually lynched?</b><br /><br />As far as the Korean can remember, 1999 (<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/24/us/man-guilty-of-murder-in-texas-dragging-death.html?pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">James Byrd Jr.</a>)<br /><br /><b>this simplistic notion of racial oppression can't stand in a country whose president -- whose most powerful person -- is a black man who has experienced racial oppression.</b><br /><br />How is Barack Obama relevant to this at all? If anything, he is the proof positive that the oppression is (while actual) not enough to prevent minorities from achieving success.The Koreanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04328000772620833495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-83132618886389661392010-03-14T15:56:49.591-04:002010-03-14T15:56:49.591-04:00I mean, how can measure oppression of some group i...<i>I mean, how can measure oppression of some group is less, some group is more?<br /><br /><b>"Not getting lynched" is a pretty good measure.</b></i><br /><br />Really? "getting lynched" is your only measurement of oppression? By that measurement, most people in the States aren't oppressed. When was the last time someone was actually lynched?<br /><br />Korean, your arguments are good, but this simplistic notion of racial oppression can't stand in a country whose president -- whose most powerful person -- is a black man <i>who has experienced racial oppression</i>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-45946966794007389502010-03-08T23:02:04.341-05:002010-03-08T23:02:04.341-05:00I learned how to deal with American diversity the ...I learned how to deal with American diversity the old fashioned way, growing up in the streets of the Bronx during the 80s. <br /><br />I didn't need to go to some fancy college campus and have my parents spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to learn about diversity because my roommate was some redneck from Alabama or what have you.<br /><br />Any Asian-American who supports Affirmative Action and any system other than pure Meritocracy has his head embedded deep within his rear end.<br /><br />This opinion is nothing more than regurgitated political correctness tripe, not a unique Asian-American viewpoint. Diversity? Gimme a break. Most KAs end up being some variety of Twinkie anyway. In fact this opinion could have been said by some white liberal twat who probably majored in basket weaving at a small liberal arts college that was 80% white.kobuksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03050875766780761683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-30427188122889123642010-03-08T16:17:52.088-05:002010-03-08T16:17:52.088-05:00Won Joon Choe wrote:
2. Your criticism of standard...Won Joon Choe wrote:<br /><b>2. Your criticism of standardized as "a multiple-choice test that measures skills contrary to what one would actually need in school" is contestable. But even if that is the case, what measure do you think better predicts performance in school, and--perhaps more germane--how would you standardize it for purposes of admissions?</b> <br /><br />A complete revamping of the SAT so that it more closely mimicked actual skills needed in college would be in order. This might involve removing time limits (how many of us routinely had to take tests where running out of time halfway through was such a looming threat that it was a game changer in the way we approached the test; sure, running out of time on the last question or two was a possibility on some tests, but not at all in the way that it is for most people on the SAT). <br /><br />This would involve the use of materials that students actually use when they use language, including dictionaries, etc.<br /><br />Of course, since everybody is accustomed to the SAT as it is, these ideas seem radical or counterintuitive, but if you want to figure out what a prospective student can figure out, you have to put them in a more appropriate environment. <br /><br />But the real reason it won't be accepted is the cost. The cost to ETS, which is a huge money-making venture, their "non-profit" status notwithstanding. People are lulled into thinking that this is a semi-governmental agency, but it's really just a private corporation that has done a very good job of protecting and expanding its interests. They don't want to do a test the right way because it would cost them too much money. It would actually cost them the amount of money people already pay to take their tests (tell me why a 40-page book and a scantron should be over $100). <br /><br />It's a scam. As much as I loathe the way the 수능 in Korea is the end-all-beat-all determinant of college entrance in Korea, at least the Korean government gets it right in terms of being in control of the test and keeping it affordable.<br /><br />And I'm speaking from the point of view as someone who got nearly 800 on SAT math and 800 on GRE math, with pretty high verbal scores to boot. I say that only to demonstrate I'm not some disgruntled person who couldn't cut in on ETS tests. Rather, I'm someone who sees the scam and the inherent unfairness.kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-57926321840977865942010-03-08T15:57:07.824-05:002010-03-08T15:57:07.824-05:00P.S. Needless to say, I don't like your analog...P.S. Needless to say, I don't like your analogy! :)Won Joon Choehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616918987942651496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-54371218020604913002010-03-08T15:55:04.601-05:002010-03-08T15:55:04.601-05:00Kushibo,
1. I think you know my aversion to one-s...Kushibo,<br /><br />1. I think you know my aversion to one-solution-fits-all approaches. <br /><br />So for the record: I am not advocating that standardized tests should be the sole nor even the primary criterion. I would prefer a more holistic scheme myself.<br /><br />2. Your criticism of standardized as "a multiple-choice test that measures skills contrary to what one would actually need in school" is contestable. But even if that is the case, what measure do you think better predicts performance in school, and--perhaps more germane--how would you standardize it for purposes of admissions?Won Joon Choehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616918987942651496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-75646305191183544262010-03-08T15:49:33.400-05:002010-03-08T15:49:33.400-05:00Won Joon Choe wrote:
But you have to have some for...Won Joon Choe wrote:<br /><b>But you have to have some form of "objective" criteria for admissions. <br /><br />Sure, standardized tests may be flawed, but would it be better to replace them with a wholly subjective criteria? Please, don't urge us to throw the baby with the bath water.</b> <br /><br />When a person is deemed qualified or not qualified, based on a multiple-choice test that measures skills <i>contrary</i> to what one would actually need in school, we have failed our students and ourselves.<br /><br />Using the SAT as "objective" criteria to determine who would be a good student or not is like using basketball tryouts to field a soccer team because you don't have the resources to obtain a soccer field.kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-34994115582947145342010-03-08T15:37:21.150-05:002010-03-08T15:37:21.150-05:00Kushibo,
But you have to have some form of "...Kushibo,<br /><br />But you have to have some form of "objective" criteria for admissions. <br /><br />Sure, standardized tests may be flawed, but would it be better to replace them with a wholly subjective criteria? Please, don't urge us to throw the baby with the bath water.<br /><br />Also, you seem to imply that the trend de-emphasizing standardized tests has to do with "WASP" fear of increasing competition. I have no expertise in the area, but the impression--esp. from admissions officers who are close friends/acquaintances--is that the pressure is still from under-performing Blacks and Hispanics and their champions.Won Joon Choehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616918987942651496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-13143153916274728122010-03-08T15:32:34.941-05:002010-03-08T15:32:34.941-05:00I don't have time to get into it right now, bu...I don't have time to get into it right now, but I think the last two comments underscore a basic problem of the SAT (and there are many): This supposedly objective test often used to reinforce a socioeconomic hierarchy with WASPy Whites on top in the past is now being "scrapped" (or at least discounted) in some sort of way when another group comes along as and beats the WASPy Whites at the same game.kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-64147231625025195342010-03-08T15:27:34.131-05:002010-03-08T15:27:34.131-05:00Chris,
I think the de-emphasis on the SAT (or oth...Chris,<br /><br />I think the de-emphasis on the SAT (or other standardized test) scores of Asian applications on the explanation that Asians are simply effective test takers might hold some validity for overseas applications or recent immigrants.<br /><br />But I think the explanation is not very applicable for early immigrants or born Americans who did not grow up in the test-taking "hagwon" and memorization-dominated class-room culture.Won Joon Choehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616918987942651496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-57351504971510481732010-03-08T14:56:01.718-05:002010-03-08T14:56:01.718-05:00First post here!
Here is an interesting wrinkle o...First post here!<br /><br />Here is an interesting wrinkle on this matter. I was laying the groundwork for my Korean nephew to get into a local university and got to meet with an admissions office staffer. He told me colleges downplay Asian applicants statistics (especially ACT and SAT scores) because they are not as good of indicators for them as they are for applicants from other ethnic groups. The reasoning is many Asians cram for tests and perform well, but can't necessarily manipulate the data they have or in worst case situations may not even understand the meaning of the answers they got right!<br /><br />Here is a simple example of this. Lets say you have a test on the Battle of Hastings. The Asian student using Asian study methods would come into the test knowing all sorts of information. They'd know the exact date, names of the leaders, size of forces, who won/lost, etc. But if you asked this person why all this mattered, their response may not be all that satisfactory.<br /><br />One troubling bit to this, is what about the Asian student who comes from a family with deep roots in America? I have a high school friend who is Japanese but here family has lived in America about 120 years. She dealt with school just like all the white and black kids at our school. Despite that, I think she got her college application stats handicapped.Chris In Dallashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02178140632315599482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-39071633757849681322010-03-07T12:48:33.639-05:002010-03-07T12:48:33.639-05:00Adeel wrote:
I can't ever be in favour of deny...Adeel wrote:<br /><b>I can't ever be in favour of denying someone admission to university based on the colour of their skin. That's ridiculous.</b> <br /><br />But "straightforward" (i.e., non-affirmative action) admissions <i>does</i> do that as well, only indirectly and more insidiously. <br /><br />I used to live in a nearly all-Black neighborhood near Compton College. It got that way because it was redlined (which was apparently illegal), meaning Blacks were pushed by realtors into that neighborhood, while good White folk were shown other homes in nicer neighborhoods. Our neighborhood had been nice, until some of the Whites who had made up a sizable amount of our once multi-ethnic middle-class community decided they didn't want to live around so many (middle class) Black people, and they started to leave. When you have enough people leaving, property values go down, and then more people — even the ones who don't mind living next to Blacks — feel a need to leave, too. This leads to more downward pressure on real estate values, which causes more to leave (my dad was unwilling to move "just because some stupid White people don't want to live next door to Black people) and he lost 40% of what he had paid for his home. We finally moved when we were the last of three non-Black families in a half-mile by half-mile block, by which time drive-bys had occurred several times, our home had been burgled (and my dad's hunting rifles stolen), and our school had started to deteriorate. See, a lot of local services, police, fire, and to some extent schools, were based on local property taxes, and the tax base had melted, China syndrome style, through the floor. The police were not equipped to handle the problems that came when the middle class Blacks themselves were getting out of Dodge and being replaced by poor Blacks, many of whom rented out the neglected homes owned by absentee (often White) landlords.<br /><br />Our neighborhood was a mess, and it was a mess because of the race of most of the inhabitants (though not necessarily because of anything they'd done wrong). School performance was low — smart kids would have had a much harder time than ten years earlier — and so if <i>an admissions eligible kid from Cummings Street</i> could not get in because their SATs and grades were not quite as high as that of some kid from Irvine, then yes, that is an outcome based on the color of their skin.kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-30146896423908502942010-03-07T05:52:44.894-05:002010-03-07T05:52:44.894-05:00I can't ever be in favour of denying someone a...I can't ever be in favour of denying someone admission to university based on the colour of their skin. That's ridiculous. The goal of teaching students how to interact with other cultures is valuable, particularly if you're an ethnic minority that can't relate to the majority (ie not a problem that white people have), but using university admissions should not be the vehicle for this.<br /><br />I do appreciate the overall argument, however. I come from a suburb that is heavily South Asian (at least 50%?). My high school was more of a UN-type mix, and my university program (liberal arts) was mostly white. The result is that I know people who grew up in Canada but dealt almost exclusively with other South Asian.<br /><br />It comes out in their mentality, their diminished ability to interact with people from other races on more than a superficial level, and, yes, even their accent. I can always tell who came from what part of Toronto based on their accent, even if they were born in Canada.A Deal Or No Dealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03846366896375330656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-46905393533222724802010-03-05T00:57:07.844-05:002010-03-05T00:57:07.844-05:00True! It's not great preparation for working l...True! It's not great preparation for working life to go to a school whose population largely ticks the same race box as you do on the US Census - especially when that race box is not "Caucasian." However, I wonder how many Asian-Americans would be at Ivy Leagues or even colleges "further down" the spectrum if admissions were race-blind; would it be so terrible to have a 20 or 30% Asian-American student body? <br /><br />On the flip side, why don't people talk more about the fact that many of these schools have a solid 20-30% (often white) legacy population as a factor in undercutting a well-rounded college experience? I think it points to how American racialization trains us to see whites as individuals or the norm and Asian-Americans, especially, as the perpetual and homogenized outsider that this debate centers on the minority population's ability to decrease diversity in the rare cases when it dominates (or even increases). <br /><br />And as someone who really enjoyed her summer class at Berkeley, Cal and its organic ice cream parlors are fantastic. Stanford kids have no idea what they're missing out on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-5870064271605827112010-03-04T11:18:12.855-05:002010-03-04T11:18:12.855-05:00A few scattered comments:
1. Asian-Americans do b...A few scattered comments:<br /><br />1. Asian-Americans do benefit from affirmative action.<br /><br />Much brouhaha over affirmative action focuses on its application in college or graduate school admissions, where Asian-Americans indeed get the short end of the stick.<br /><br />Nonetheless, what is ignored is that Asian-Americans do slightly benefit from affirmative action outside the educational context (e.g. government contracts). <br /><br />(Of course, this data may be out-dated, given that it has been at least a decade since I researched this topic.)<br /><br />Moreover, some elite institutions do/did give a plus to Asian-American candidates in admissions, due to a variety of factors. I knew, for instance, that this was true when I applied to Dartmouth College. And Dartmouth is emphatically not the only elite institutions that had difficulty attracting minority candidates when I applied.<br /><br />2. "Affirmative Action" in college or graduate school admissions is not de facto limited to race. <br /><br />I have several friends who happen to be/have been admissions officers (including at an Ivy League college), and you would be absolutely shocked at how many academically unqualified students are admitted because they can run 4.4 40 yard dash or are children of an alumni.<br /><br />So it is not like we have a purely meritocratic admissions standard anyways. <br /><br />(But to be fair, I also concede that the larger size of unqualified minority candidates as opposed legacy or "student-athlete" candidates makes the race affirmative action aspect more problematic.)<br /><br />3. I personally think there are better justifications for affirmative action or racial quotas than "diversity." <br /><br />To be frank, "stability" or--if one were to be less frank--"opportunity" would be a better slogan. To summarize and even simplify Aristotle (and many lesser lights after him), a society cannot endure by shutting off a large segment of its population from the corridors of power, regardless of its fitness or capacity. Hence, aristocracies must take special care to incorporate the demos (and, conversely, democracies the aristoi) into the ruling structure. Likewise, American pigmentocracy must do the same to its racial minorities in order to moderate stasis.<br /><br />This is what I call a "conservative" case for affirmative action.<br /><br />4. In a similar vein, the original rationale of affirmative action as a temporary fix was a bad strategy. <br /><br />I understand that the "race" metaphor and temporary fix rhetoric was used by LBJ to dampen the opposition to affirmative action. But I think the underlying presumption that racism is a temporary phenomenon--and that we can eradicate racism through education, enlightenment, and exposure--underestimates what is permanent in human. And surely, the discriminating and tribalizing instinct is primeval with man. <br /><br />Hence--like a good Aristotelian or Burkean conservative who knows that certain unappetizing aspects of human societies will never disappear--I would have framed affirmative action in permanent terms, as a system of eternal quotas.<br /><br />Of course, that would invite a rhetorical problem. That is, such a pssimistic and tribe-centered perspective clashes with the fundamentally optimistic and "individualistic" American ethos. So perhaps some rhetorical subterfuge about affirmative action may be inevitable.Won Joon Choehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616918987942651496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-51346091275515499692010-03-04T11:04:40.109-05:002010-03-04T11:04:40.109-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Won Joon Choehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616918987942651496noreply@blogger.com