tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post545535569884080998..comments2024-03-26T03:31:06.199-04:00Comments on Ask a Korean!: Culturalism and Plane Crashes: Reactions and Leftover ThoughtsT.K. (Ask a Korean!)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-18689642180543692012013-08-11T15:43:23.666-04:002013-08-11T15:43:23.666-04:00As a white guy who can read Japanese (slowly and p...As a white guy who can read Japanese (slowly and painfully still), and 17 years ago almost made it to the point where I could hold a conversation in Korean, I have the impression that the notion of the language confining your intellectual capacity is equally popular on both sides of the pacific. Your paraphrase of Gladwell "Koreans are doomed to crash planes so long as they keep speaking Korean." is fair, and I am not trying to defend that point of view. But I also know that Japanese intellectuals have published books at a very approximate rate of one every 10 years since 1868 arguing that they will never be able to have all the material benefits of western culture so long as they continue speaking Japanese. I wish I could cite names, but I'm a computer nerd by trade and it has been a few years since my last Japanese Lit class where this fact was mentioned. In other words, your paraphrase is of Gladwell is fair, but Japanese intellectuals have been writing books and articles for over a hundred years saying something much closer to exactly that than anything written by a westerner. Are they unique among Asians in this? Do Koreans and Chinese not advocate and/or suffer from similar views of how their language is limiting them intellectually?Cedar Bristolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16265238073694388741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-81249138823684034322013-07-22T21:25:53.346-04:002013-07-22T21:25:53.346-04:00@The Korean:
Question 1: Yes, but mainly in the ...@The Korean: <br /><br />Question 1: Yes, but mainly in the case of gun violence. For oil spills, since the companies involved are multi-national conglomerates, there is usually not much "this is because of the American/British culture" so much as it is the dangers of wanton capitalism culture (which is linked to American culture in most minds). The point I believe you are making (that it is not as explicitly stated) is an interesting one, but I don't think that it is as meaningful to the overall point as it seems you think it is.<br /><br />Question 2: Absolutely. Every incident of extreme gun violence and/or oil spillage is frequently (maybe even exclusively) discussed in the context of past events of the same nature, no matter how far in the past they are.MasterCKOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08910426144423298132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-19834173878843493382013-07-20T14:34:30.058-04:002013-07-20T14:34:30.058-04:00The difference between "couldn't care les...The difference between "couldn't care less" (correct) and "could care less" gets on my nerves too... but considering that about half the bloggers/journalist/commenters on the Internet get it wrong even when American English is their first language, I'm prepared to cut The Korean a bit of slack. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927540631390462980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-39905669120218939222013-07-18T05:28:24.889-04:002013-07-18T05:28:24.889-04:00Hi, I'm an American that speaks rudimentary Ko...Hi, I'm an American that speaks rudimentary Korean and was a communications consultant for the Republic of Korea Air Force stationed at 공군 교육사령부 in Jinju. I taught pilots and air traffic controllers. The Korean! mentioned that he was loathe to take one one person's opinion, so I'm here to lend my weight to what Chris Kahn has said regarding use of language. Languages have certain strengths and weaknesses that make them very good at certain functions, and comparatively less good at others. Most bilingual English/Korean speakers will tell you that Korean is better at communicating affection and familiarity than English, for example, with English-only speakers having no idea what they mean. I've heard many bilingual speakers say that English is a more concrete, precise language. Mike Breen in his book The Koreans mentioned a bilingual couple that used to speak in Korean and fight in English, because it was easier to communicate their points quickly/clearly in English.<br /><br />I'm not surprised that 90% of the language spoken in the cockpit was English, as English is the international language of aviation, and many (if not most) aviators will speak to each other in English quite a bit (even when not communicating over the radio) to practice and keep up their skills.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10041903792401504058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-29522742651239276832013-07-16T06:59:23.369-04:002013-07-16T06:59:23.369-04:00Hi Tom! Yes, I am very much looking forward to the...Hi Tom! Yes, I am very much looking forward to the next trip to ZA. I'm in love with that place.<br /><br />I am a litigator as well, and I can accept the "factual matrix" idea. But I think we both agree that Gladwell goes far past that.T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-6602914174091238952013-07-15T20:55:12.593-04:002013-07-15T20:55:12.593-04:00Whoops ^ above is 'TomEats'. Hope you are ...Whoops ^ above is 'TomEats'. Hope you are looking forward to next trip to South Africa. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05091138649676347614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-75655293188682263972013-07-15T20:54:05.295-04:002013-07-15T20:54:05.295-04:00TK - I didn't realise until I read your other ...TK - I didn't realise until I read your other post on finding the underlying similarities on Civil and Common Law that you were a lawyer. Interesting to learn that (personally) as I am also one and after finishing a long case conducted in English and governed by Korean law I tend to agree on a theoretical level. Though I would mention that its application by the Korean courts can be especially tainted by things such as patriotism or 전관예우 etc.<br /> <br />I agree on your points about Gladwell's sloppiness and the over reliance on 'culture' as an easy answer and thought it might be worth suggesting a term we use in litigation as preferable: the factual matrix.<br /> <br />As to say one part of Korean culture (i.e. hierarchy) caused the plane crash but omitting another part (i.e. that modern Korean culture is highly risk adverse) is selective. However, to suggest that a factual matrix whereby pilots were, based on the current information, (1) inexperienced at flying that type of plane; (2) had a low level of actual manual flight hours rather than automatic; and (3) passed their training requirements in society that has evolved test passing to an art, may be somewhat more balanced and helpful.<br /> <br />Finally, in relation to the KTVU incident, I'm not sure that has to do with your humorous suggestion of inherent deference to authority but a factual matrix whereby racist humour is permitted. That said, Korea is currently a far far far far far more racist place than America and the good thing is the horrified reaction to it in the US.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05091138649676347614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-2915123346168105002013-07-15T20:18:07.540-04:002013-07-15T20:18:07.540-04:00Since you posted that Culturalism is a term you cr...Since you posted that Culturalism is a term you created for your blog back in 2007, could you elaborate on how exactly it is different from the Culturalism so prevalent in the social sciences? Your use of the term seems to focus solely on people using a cultural explanation for everything, but even that isn't a new idea and ignores how the term is generally used. It's been in heavy use since the 90s, influencing a number of highly popular books, such as Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel. Erich Fromm is sometimes considered one of the earlier researchers in the field FYI.El Generalissimohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10920525203352533486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-35659637359379148452013-07-15T17:40:08.591-04:002013-07-15T17:40:08.591-04:00Did Korean culture play a role in the crash of Asi...Did Korean culture play a role in the crash of Asiana Flight 214?<br /><br />Does Korean culture cause Korean flight crews to be more likely to crash their planes?<br /><br />Though not wholly unrelated, these are two different questions and the answer to one in no way definitively determines the answer to the other. However, the answer to the second question very much determines the appropriateness of asking the first a mere days after the crash -- not in the accident investigation sense but in the general news/punditry sense.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16653870936255649160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-45076467369989589332013-07-15T06:28:55.958-04:002013-07-15T06:28:55.958-04:00I don't mean to snipe, but the Mongols were re...I don't mean to snipe, but the Mongols were really into forcing their language and culture on anyone. If anything, they tended to get culturally absorbed into the societies they conquered.<br /><br />Sorry, as you were.Robert Koehlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089386197720816858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-80798844220631911192013-07-15T06:20:33.544-04:002013-07-15T06:20:33.544-04:00Tried that. Sadly, it doesn't work.Tried that. Sadly, it doesn't work.Robert Koehlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089386197720816858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-28809792185481570762013-07-15T00:43:11.219-04:002013-07-15T00:43:11.219-04:00It seems you're under the impression that when...It seems you're under the impression that when legitimate criticism of your logic and analysis is presented, that a one-sentence snarky, off-topic reply will cover up your sloppy thinking.<br /><br />Good luck with that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-72907339267687708742013-07-14T21:36:22.415-04:002013-07-14T21:36:22.415-04:00Sure!
Sent it from my main e-mail address (hush.a...Sure!<br /><br />Sent it from my main e-mail address (hush.ai).jinrokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00155470600628162027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-74186250292407736562013-07-14T18:20:47.144-04:002013-07-14T18:20:47.144-04:00I'm sure it will go down like you thought in c...I'm sure it will go down like you thought in case of emergency, but in most units dire situations rarely come up and people are fairly lax during drills (unless they're being audited). The number one complicating factor is age, as petty officers (부사관) are always lower in rank than OCS/ROTC/Academy types, and the experience that comes along with it. Also, commissioned officers (사관) are almost always on rotational assignments whereas the petty officers tend to stay at their stations (at least in the navy) giving them a big edge in familiarity around the base/ship. So Lieutenants will, even if they outrank the petty officers, 'respect' petty officers with more age and experience, causing some awkward communications or the use of straight forward honorifics.<br /><br />Also, things can get complicated even among officers as some will get accepted to the academy on their second, third or fourth tries, seeing highschool 후배s among upper classmen, ranks may (although very rarely) get reversed along the way, etc. Short-term officers that get commissioned through OCS/ROTC have an even tougher time as some will join right after graduation(ROTC) while there are tons of OCS types that join after having finished their masters and even their Ph.D's (not often but it happens) creating all sorts of complicated relationships that can't be ignored during their service (2-3 years) as they'll run into each other outside of the military again.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04937996613333566769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-41788276285655605992013-07-14T14:39:57.970-04:002013-07-14T14:39:57.970-04:00As evinced by some of the comments here, "cul...As evinced by some of the comments here, "culturalism" ought to be properly viewed as a form of racism, which I've called on Marmot's hole "racism in thick framed glasses." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-50192953121892269412013-07-14T11:07:25.664-04:002013-07-14T11:07:25.664-04:00I thought the exchange went like: "장애물 해제, 전진...I thought the exchange went like: "장애물 해제, 전진!" --> entirely Sino-Korean, no honorifics involved. Good to know how it actually goes down.T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-33325654601801284202013-07-14T10:25:20.897-04:002013-07-14T10:25:20.897-04:00In the lowest form of speech (해체), not only do you...In the lowest form of speech (해체), not only do you use straight up imperative statements, but also the verb forms are usually only 1 or 2 syllables.<br /><br />The highest honorific form usually used (not the 해요체, but 합쇼체), tacks on three more syllables to the verb, and also encourages usage of a more roundabout way of "asking" for a certain action which also lengthens the sentence. <br /><br />For example, in English the equivalent would be <br /><br />"do it" (해)<br />as opposed to<br />"would you please do it, sir" (해주시겠습니까)<br /><br /><br /><br />The more convoluted nature of the highest form of speech makes CQC exercises with simmunitions (paint bullets) and a fresh batch of SEALs very entertaining. <br /><br />"Petty Officer Lim, could you please cover that door as I move... OW, OW, OW"<br />임선임하사님, 문 잡아주시겠습니까? 가겠습니다...<br /><br />After a few weeks, that becomes "Lim, cover that door! Moving!"<br />임중사, 문잡아! 간다!<br /><br />The military has also had to mandate usage of the lowest form of speech in radio communications - albeit in a stylized form that must be formally taught.<br /><br />(I wish there was an edit function for the comments)Chris Kahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234374407495383773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-35481404064884386172013-07-14T10:22:43.779-04:002013-07-14T10:22:43.779-04:00Ok,in Korean that becomes
"Petty Officer Lim...Ok,in Korean that becomes<br /><br />"Petty Officer Lim, could you please cover that door as I move... OW, OW, OW"<br /><br />임선임하사님, 문 잡아주시겠습니까? 가겠습니다...<br /><br /><br />"Lim, cover that door! Moving!"<br /><br />임중사, 문잡아! 간다! Chris Kahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234374407495383773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-62222080368577252712013-07-14T09:59:09.429-04:002013-07-14T09:59:09.429-04:00Can you type that exchange out in Korean please? Can you type that exchange out in Korean please? T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-75793407104435273052013-07-14T09:56:26.782-04:002013-07-14T09:56:26.782-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chris Kahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234374407495383773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-45438104664025736602013-07-14T09:37:22.702-04:002013-07-14T09:37:22.702-04:00Was that culture called "American"? Was ...Was that culture called "American"? Was that characteristic applied to two data points that were 16 years apart?T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-69523133226056064782013-07-14T05:50:33.300-04:002013-07-14T05:50:33.300-04:00Wait, conquering another people group and trying t...Wait, conquering another people group and trying to get them to accept your "superior" language and culture started in the 19th century? I'm pretty sure it started at the beginning of the world. <br />Just look at the Romans and the Mongols and the Babylonians and the Egyptians and...basically everyone.Lolaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03378356771674173373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-88572996162746189202013-07-14T04:48:13.662-04:002013-07-14T04:48:13.662-04:00There was plenty of self-criticizing about the BP ...There was plenty of self-criticizing about the BP oil spill and the culture of over-capitalism that spawned it. There is LOTS of self-criticizing about gun violence. To be honest, I don't understand how you or The Korean are attempting to make this point when it is so wrong.MasterCKOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08910426144423298132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-78919954226725939382013-07-13T23:23:13.516-04:002013-07-13T23:23:13.516-04:00you r not supposed to but in real life everyone ex...you r not supposed to but in real life everyone except freshly commissioned officers do.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04937996613333566769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-76399102619161842052013-07-13T23:00:43.425-04:002013-07-13T23:00:43.425-04:00I think it is still overrated. For example, no one...I think it is still overrated. For example, no one seems to mention that most words used in military are in Sino-Korean without honorifics.<br /><br />T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.com