tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post7789247556699322870..comments2024-03-26T03:31:06.199-04:00Comments on Ask a Korean!: How to Persuade Koreans - Take TwoT.K. (Ask a Korean!)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-61017810312904955292013-03-26T11:42:32.637-04:002013-03-26T11:42:32.637-04:00Wow. Was the Korean just showing us how extremely ...Wow. Was the Korean just showing us how extremely intelligent he is? Or how good a writer he is? Because that's without a doubt. I thought I was reading an article a professor submitted in science circles. Very impressed!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00858755392527578910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-78631381482393861022012-07-24T13:21:45.640-04:002012-07-24T13:21:45.640-04:00Maybe you should learn your wife's language.Maybe you should learn your wife's language.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04400872386340320113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-214425309042211922012-05-08T12:12:36.566-04:002012-05-08T12:12:36.566-04:00Let's not use "Western" to mean &quo...Let's not use "Western" to mean "Anglophone".Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02789749748256219627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-32962709555089850572012-04-05T10:41:54.297-04:002012-04-05T10:41:54.297-04:00I would answer the letter by saying people cling v...I would answer the letter by saying people cling very stubbornly to their ideologies, and, when these ideologies are challenged by counter evidence, people have fallback positions they go to: one of the first of these is to attack the credibility of the source of whatever the evidence is.<br /><br />You see this in internet 'arguments' all the time, of course, as you do in real life political discussions.<br /><br />(This is not exactly a new insight, of course. For an entertaining articulation of the point go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHYeVd2pi68)<br /><br />Koreans are very thoroughly indoctrinated with the Korean nationalist ideology, and American propaganda has, if anything, an even firmer grip on western minds, IMO.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17226758157157715512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-46928192091930271882012-02-23T00:58:44.953-05:002012-02-23T00:58:44.953-05:00What are the Korean words that an 8th grader would...What are the Korean words that an 8th grader would know that a 6th grader wouldn't? (I'm a Korean btw)Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03888043551318711986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-85390132591278559442012-02-13T16:08:44.511-05:002012-02-13T16:08:44.511-05:00I'm Chinese American, and I completely agree t...I'm Chinese American, and I completely agree that cultural mindset/background plays an extremely important role in persuasion and perspective. <br /><br />I'm alittle confused though, maybe you can clarify~~ The reasons you offer for why Koreans don't trust Western sources, is that Western sources have misrepresented Korea, and consequently, lost the trust of many Koreans. Also, Western sources can never understand Korean circumstances/mindsets as well as a Korean source can (Completely agree). However, this serves as an explanation for Expat's Wife's behavior ONLY if they're debating a Korea-related issue right? If Expat and his wife are arguing about something like the current American presidential election, shouldn't she, by your argument, trust the Expat's Western sources more?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-17256307699035384762011-05-08T17:19:01.245-04:002011-05-08T17:19:01.245-04:00WHOA!! WHOA!!! I guess this explain pretty much wh...WHOA!! WHOA!!! I guess this explain pretty much why Koreans speak like that! I mean, the tone of their voices... I was really surprised when I first heard koreans speaking. I guess is all about ethos (ήθος) and pathos(πάθος) and not about grown-up people trying to be kids again. XDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-71387839282162912272011-03-06T01:23:20.481-05:002011-03-06T01:23:20.481-05:00WoW! Enlightening this is! Changing my mindset y...WoW! Enlightening this is! Changing my mindset you are!only1bigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09150889953824187192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-43980998387606306202010-09-30T17:13:41.073-04:002010-09-30T17:13:41.073-04:00Koreans have gotten into the habit of tuning forei...Koreans have gotten into the habit of tuning foreigners out because too many foreigners like to tell the Koreans what they can't do. If Koreans had listened to foreigners Korea wouldn't have a steel, ship, electronics or automotive industry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-88845656882866998562010-04-09T02:38:36.784-04:002010-04-09T02:38:36.784-04:00Subjectivity has no place in proper debate. Reali...Subjectivity has no place in proper debate. Reality is reality regardless of how one feels about it. 1 + 1 = 2, no matter if its a physicist, or a 6th grade drop out stating it. And the answer is still 2 regardless if I'm having a good day or a bad one.<br /><br />But AAK is correct, when attempting to persuade / alter another human's perceptions / views ethos and pathos are much more important then logos. This goes doubly in places where the culture focus's more on the prior two then the last one.<br /><br />Which in all honestly ... is deeply disturbing. As a species, are we so ruled by our own emotions and subjective views that it inhibits and blocks out our rational ability? Ones personal feelings should have no impact on the facts or material present.palladinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17991559032581262637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-51975102641396290042010-04-03T03:33:02.963-04:002010-04-03T03:33:02.963-04:00"And as for the BBC, when it comes to Korea, ..."And as for the BBC, when it comes to Korea, they clearly don't know what they're doing sometimes."<br />The BBC gets a lot wrong.<br /><br />Also, I have noticed a similar problem in westerns from what you described. They think everyone is basically a westerner with a funny language, food and dress. They don't realize that very basic modes of thinking differ across cultures.Doc Merlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13615897698740661539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-11920489870328410652010-03-31T08:25:57.992-04:002010-03-31T08:25:57.992-04:00I would recommend that The Expat take a look at th...I would recommend that The Expat take a look at the book "The Geography of Thought," which explains some of the difference between Eastern and Western thinking. While it does tend to make the same point over and over again, it is still valuable in ascertaining why Koreans are okay with some arguments that a westerner would consider illogical (e.g. Why is the air conditioning on? Because it's hot... Why is the window open? Because it's cold...).<br /><br />As The Korean stated, though, I think it mostly comes down to trust. People tend to trust what they can best understand.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16336979602916793189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-88030183367657784702010-03-31T08:24:40.727-04:002010-03-31T08:24:40.727-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16336979602916793189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-72125311881011131102010-03-30T15:59:24.334-04:002010-03-30T15:59:24.334-04:00Bryan wrote:
They weren't even placebo control...Bryan wrote:<br /><b>They weren't even placebo controlled. What's with that?</b><br /><br /><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/20/health/webmd/main958230.shtml" rel="nofollow">One of the articles I found</a> did indicate they had a control group:<br /><br /><i>A total of 387 healthy volunteers were followed for two months during cold and flu season. <br /><br />One third of the participants were told to gargle with water at least three times a day, another third were told to gargle three times daily with a mouth rinse containing iodine, and the rest did not gargle at all.<br /><br />During the study, 130 people caught colds or other upper respiratory infections. <br /><br />There was no major difference in the rate of colds between the group that did not gargle and the group that gargled with the iodine solution. But there was a 36 percent decrease in infections in the group that gargled with water.</i><br /><br />Of course, that's not the same as using placebos. This is from five years ago and it's what I found in English. I'd have to look harder and probably have to look in Japanese (or possibly Korean or Taiwanese-Mandarin) for a more up-to-date study, assuming there is one.<br /><br />And that goes right back to the heart of this post. :)kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-14684895932625831652010-03-30T15:35:48.511-04:002010-03-30T15:35:48.511-04:00Kushibo,
That comment about gargling was interest...Kushibo,<br /><br />That comment about gargling was interesting, and I'm always looking at ways to become healthier, so I looked up information on the studies. They weren't even placebo controlled. What's with that?Bryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13164617843762806572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-84712400130889811832010-03-29T11:40:56.876-04:002010-03-29T11:40:56.876-04:00Umm and I would like to say to the Expat, that bes...Umm and I would like to say to the Expat, that besides learning Korean, just be patient, and you will understand each other better surely.Phiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01302325440544095326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-10377827602629395422010-03-29T11:29:36.376-04:002010-03-29T11:29:36.376-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01302325440544095326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-56776976236543727332010-03-29T08:33:16.282-04:002010-03-29T08:33:16.282-04:00lol, love the fan death referencelol, love the fan death referencecaldeverahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405785155093250898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-67567335009227146252010-03-28T23:38:08.707-04:002010-03-28T23:38:08.707-04:00I'll just say that the funny part about this q...I'll just say that the funny part about this question is that both the expat and his wife are doing the same thing except from different cultures. The expat from an American culture and his wife from a Korean culture. I wouldn't be surprised if his wife is asking the same type of question on a Korean message board "Whenever we get into an argument with husband he always gets his information from American/English sources wikipedia, etc. Why does he do this and not use Korean sources?"<br /><br />Rather than typing out a whole essay I'll just say that different people/cultures look at things differently. I think every culture is biased to their own people. So your wife and friends are just making sure that the facts aren't culturally biased.RayetStarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17314062195175952858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-30091680468441638902010-03-28T21:42:56.283-04:002010-03-28T21:42:56.283-04:00@Roboseyo
Reminds me of Mark Antony's line: &...@Roboseyo<br /><br />Reminds me of Mark Antony's line: "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones."7Ø7https://www.blogger.com/profile/03927556915325498097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-18050729285218074252010-03-28T18:52:41.348-04:002010-03-28T18:52:41.348-04:00It is also worth putting the shoe on the other foo...It is also worth putting the shoe on the other foot, and recognizing that, to many westerners with extensive experience in Korea, we do tend to look with mild, or sharp skepticism at Korean media. After reading the "Kimchi is..." articles in the Korea Herald, and Kang Shin-who in the Korea times, and Yonhap News getting into an unbecoming 'you should understand korea more' snit about some journalist asking an embarrassing question, we take those sources with a grain of salt, and by extension, assume that other Korean news sources are equally, or more, unreliable. <br /><br />This is also because we focus on times when Korea's news media let it down, for example the 2008 Mad Cow scare, rather than the overwhelming majority of cases where they probably get it mostly right, but because they got it mostly right, it passes without comment.Roboseyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308196436612993379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-89086286269179230952010-03-28T18:43:53.477-04:002010-03-28T18:43:53.477-04:00I would also point out that ethos and pathos are e...I would also point out that ethos and pathos are especially important in Korea--and Westerners and Koreans establish these two appeals in different ways. Ethos is related to hierarchical Confucianism, but is less based on demonstrated experience and knowledge and more on age and background (e.g. if the mechanic was my aging uncle who attended Seoul University back in the day, I might listen to him for health advice over my fresh-out-of-Kyungbuk University doctor). Since Korean hierarchies do not exist in the Western media (we tend to try to use rational facts and referencing other sources to establish our writing ethos), the Expat's wife would naturally be skeptical of these sources since they do not meet her criteria of appropriate ethos. Pathos has similar problems; Koreans are very swayed emotionally by stories of one person suffering or achieving and Westerners are often swayed by overwhelming numbers and pictures of the devastation of buildings and such. I mean, of course both are swayed by both, but having graded enough essays where Korean students open with the story of one person losing his/her home to address the issue of global warming (seriously? that's the best approach??), I feel like the approach is just a little bit different.<br /><br />Feminist theory also critiques the West's over-reliance on rationality, but in different ways.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03708273691893291730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-68326176282815155122010-03-28T16:14:47.137-04:002010-03-28T16:14:47.137-04:00And as for the BBC, when it comes to Korea, they c...And as for the BBC, when it comes to Korea, <a href="http://kushibo.blogspot.com/2009/11/does-one-of-bs-stand-for-botched.html" rel="nofollow">they clearly don't know what they're doing sometimes</a>.kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-5687318668541392142010-03-28T16:09:56.056-04:002010-03-28T16:09:56.056-04:00For most Koreans, it is more like a mild skepticis...<b>For most Koreans, it is more like a mild skepticism at non-Korean sources, not much different from any other people in the world. (Heck, the Korean doubts that the Expat Wife insists on a Korean sources for all topics, all the time.) And this skepticism is for a good reason. Even the most reputable English-language news organization often gets things completely wrong, because they operate out of the background knowledge that is different from Koreans’.</b> <br /><br />From my experience, this is the biggest factor, something I encounter frequently with both KoKos (Korean-Koreans) and native Japanese. <br /><br />An experience with "M," who is from Kansai, is a good example. She promptly gargles with water whenever she comes home from anywhere, and when I noticed this, I asked her why. She was dumbfounded that I had never heard of this as a measure for preventing colds because "everyone in Japan knows this" (and actually, I know some people in Korea who do this, too, but I'd momentarily forgotten when I asked).<br /><br />I was mildly skeptical, but only insofar as I'd never heard of that as a specific preventative measure and I couldn't imagine, if it were true, what the mechanism would be for prevention. So I looked it up, and lo and behold, there really were some studies that demonstrated it. <br /><br />Japanese studies, but they sounded, well, sound. And it was enough for the NIH to investigate. But the tone of the article was decidedly incredulous of the Japanese claim, calling it silly despite the evidence. And from that background, I could understand someone from Japan (or Korea) who has read in Japanese (or Korean) of research done in Japan (or Korean) being skeptical of English-language media that either omits it entirely or mocks it.kushibohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10306033998028548550noreply@blogger.com