tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post5773083065997891908..comments2024-03-18T07:07:53.346-04:00Comments on Ask a Korean!: Asiana Crash and Culturalism, AgainT.K. (Ask a Korean!)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-35202916775853683822013-12-17T03:56:01.875-05:002013-12-17T03:56:01.875-05:00"In a globalised world why wasn't it ther..."In a globalised world why wasn't it there, was there much debate in Korea?"<br /><br />This is an interesting question that deserves further investigation -- in my comment in another part of this discussion, I joke about canadians muffing golf shots because of holding hockey sticks when they're young, but the fact is, as I said there, we DO hear people essentialize themselves. "You wouldn't understand Jung. It's a Korean idea" is a type of self-othering - reflexive culturalism, in the sense The Korean is using it - just as much as "we canadians are just too polite to say anything about it, I guess" -- and why a particular self-image of a culture exists, and where it came from, and how one set of ideas catches on and gets internalized, while another set of ideas is rejected and answered with defensiveness, is an interesting and very complex thing to investigate, but requires a lot of care, and careful reading between the lines. And being a trained anthropologist probably helps.Roboseyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308196436612993379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-34757243356941948942013-12-17T02:31:01.615-05:002013-12-17T02:31:01.615-05:00Christopher
My comment was that I don't belie...Christopher<br /><br />My comment was that I don't believe that the west has no culture of respect for rank, in answer to your statement that the west has no respect culture or reverence for people of superior rank or age. You said that clearly, two posts up.<br /><br />I'm not denying that Korea may well have a set culture of respect for rank and age, I'm merely suggesting that the west does indeed have other cultural factors which may well be as powerful in discouraging questioning of superiors. That has been my observation over four decades. You, for some strange reason, want to believe that cultural mores that might discourage Koreans from questioning superiors are more powerful than western cultural mores which do the same thing. Based on four decades of observation, I would say that western cultural factors - some of which I listed in my previous post - that discourage questioning of superiors are actually extremely successful.<br /><br />I have already pointed out that your logic is severely flawed because you seem to imagine that there is only one way that cultures and societies discourage questioning authority. That is ridiculous, and demeans your whole argument. There is just no way that you are able to make comparisons because your perceptions of western cultural mores are obviously skewed. That is, if you are not able to recognize that there are indeed strong factors that discourage questioning superiors in your own culture, then why would I believe that you have the wherewithal to accurately assess a foreign culture which you may not even possess appropriate language skills, or even openness towards.<br /><br />Furthermore, if this quality does not manifest in situations of heavy stress that may have moral repercussions, then there is nothing to boast about. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-37608174201315406882013-12-17T00:47:45.377-05:002013-12-17T00:47:45.377-05:00This may surprise you to hear, but I think that is...This may surprise you to hear, but I think that is a really good point.<br /><br />Opposition to explanations from culture on different issues in discussion of them is needed, I can certainly agree with you on that. That's where Western media can certainly be improved upon (I think they do it with other Western cultures that are not theirs just the same though), however, in the case of plane crashes a big debate only started really when TheKorean wrote a piece about it. This was a piece I largely disagreed with, but was a valuable perspective to have, which I applaud him for and perhaps should have been more complimentary about. However, why did it not come sooner? Is it because the media weren't interested in reporting that side of the debate or was it that no one was really making the point? In a globalised world why wasn't it there, was there much debate in Korea? Were there major articles criticising the findings in Korea? I'd be really interested to know. <br /><br />If all Western media silence other viewpoints, then TheKorean has a point, but it is not clear they do this (I've seen Fox news silence other viewpoints before, but they are harangued for it, and they do it regardless of what country they are from). If they aren't giving enough opportunities to Asian reporters/writers they are bias somewhat by accident. If there simply aren't enough people from other cultures coming out against some cultural explanations, perhaps they just agree with them or don't want to become journalists, radio or TV presenters. I know that a few Koreans I discussed this with agreed with the cultural explanation of some Korean plane crashes before the findings.<br /><br />Complicated as hell when you think of it like that, but I think this shows the benefit of being able to use cultural explanations. It expands the argument and perhaps causes changes in the way we think and go about things, the cultural explanation of Korean plane crashes made Korean Air change its ways and improve safety, perhaps arguments against the Korean cultural explanation of plane crashes (and arguments like it) might improve journalism in the West. TheKorean's original article was also very well received in the Western media and by Western people, I would like to add. <br /><br />It is all about the freedom to express opinions and the more debate the better. People need to be less sensitive when the subject of culture comes up and go out there and speak out about the things they disagree with, that's how we move forward.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-59431338729738223652013-12-16T23:27:42.491-05:002013-12-16T23:27:42.491-05:00Everybody knows Canadian golfers always slice thei...Everybody knows Canadian golfers always slice their drives because we grew up holding hockey sticks while playing pond hockey. However, we have strong ankles from wearing hand-me-down skates, which is why Canadians are good snowboarders.<br /><br />Everybody knows that. It's our culture. Please understand.<br /><br />I've always found it interesting how members of a culture can even use "culturalism" against themselves, and sometimes even internalize comments others make about their culture.Roboseyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308196436612993379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-10853689874407867992013-12-16T23:18:28.872-05:002013-12-16T23:18:28.872-05:00To piggy-back on that, Helen Melon... when America...To piggy-back on that, Helen Melon... when American gun culture is discussed, there is a robust and mobilized voice on either side of that debate. When foreign cultures are "culturalized" (just to play around with TK's usage of the word), they are not always given a voice to respond to the cultural arguments -- or not a voice as amplified and loud as the voices assigning attributes to them. <br /><br />What percentage of nationally syndicated columnists in the USA are Asian-American? What percentage of talking head commentators? What percentage of TV and Radio talk show hosts? -- that imbalance means that the response to culturalist assumptions doesn't get as much amplification as the voices saying "It's because culture!" so the discussion isn't as robust and healthy as, for example, discussion of gun culture or obesity or public healthcare in the US.Roboseyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308196436612993379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-80777677105409215822013-12-16T22:26:19.062-05:002013-12-16T22:26:19.062-05:00Yes, the only reasonable conclusion at this point ...Yes, the only reasonable conclusion at this point is to say "perhaps" culture played a role. Read kuiwon's statistical argument below. The sample size is much too small at this point to draw any definitive conclusions. Even if the pilot had said directly, "Yes, I believe Korean culture was partly responsible for the crash" it would still not prove that Korean culture was to blame. ( Btw, based on your quote above, he doesn't say this. You and others with the same mindset are only inferring that he did. You are demonstrating the very definition of confirmation bias. ) <br /><br />So, even if he had said, "Korean culture was to blame," there is such a thing as leading questions, is there not? There is such a thing as deflecting blame from yourself, is there not? There is such a thing as taking a quote out of context, is there not? So how do you know, so definitively, with such little information at this point, that it was none of these things? You don't. So, given these facts, the only reasonable conclusion at this point is to say "perhaps" culture played a role. And the fact that you and so many others like you seem to be missing this very basic point is what I find to be, well, stunning. <br /><br /> JacLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06881260567703817773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-87983161933392642322013-12-16T22:02:41.862-05:002013-12-16T22:02:41.862-05:00TK, I think every culture tries to assign cultural...TK, I think every culture tries to assign culturalism to other cultures while ignoring their own. It just so happens that you live in the US so you mostly hear what the US media has to say.<br /><br />With respect to the airline industry, since the Western nations were the first to establish airlines and even to this day, they manufacture most of the airplanes, operation manuals, SOP, and English is the lingua franca of the airline industry, I think it is understandable why they may scrutinize cultural factors that may cause pilots to deviate from SOP while being oblivious to their own (because that is the standard).<br /><br />In other respects, however, I do think American culture is scrutinized. Mass killings attributable to American gun culture. Jihadists rant about America's hedonistic culture. I am sure there are all sorts of stereotypes about Americans in Korea. The only difference is that Americans don't really give a shit. I guess that is the luxury of being the richest, most powerful country in the world.<br />Helen Melonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18240642149104991799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-2659430039820945882013-12-16T20:05:31.841-05:002013-12-16T20:05:31.841-05:00No, my point is not that Western culture has no re...No, my point is not that Western culture has no reverence to people of superior age and rank of course they do, just less reverence. This is undeniable. Korea has a whole respect culture in language and etiquette emphasising the importance of showing reverence to people of higher age and rank!!<br /><br />Your comment on my blog was also a misunderstanding on your part and I replied to it myself giving the reasons why why that particular commenter wrote was not a contradiction. Please read it, it will clear things up.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-36857267116332984552013-12-16T17:44:44.891-05:002013-12-16T17:44:44.891-05:00A niece piece, TK!
I do agree for the most part. ... A niece piece, TK!<br /><br />I do agree for the most part. Where I disagree (as some other commenters seem to as well) is that Europeans and Americans get a pass on cultural explanations for certain behaviors / events. It's in general our tendency to apply such explanations to pretty much any group outside of our own. There are, e.g., plenty of intra-European cultural stereotypes (the "lazy Greek" or the "efficient German") used to explain the Euro debt crisis. It's essentially an intellectual shortcut so we don't have to painstakingly analyze the real causes.<br /><br />kuiwon nailed it -- in the end it's about statistics: Did "Korean culture" play a role in the Asiana 214 crash? Probably. Does that mean that Korean culture makes Korean flights inherently less safe? The recent data quite strongly says no.<br /><br />As for Mr. Gladwell, he should stick to "popularizing" other people's finding (which he does well), rather than trying to come up with conclusions of his own. He lacks the proper scientific training and tends to intellectual laziness. Thus he is often simply wrong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02612112364779577822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-40727038125879545282013-12-16T17:18:39.039-05:002013-12-16T17:18:39.039-05:00Yes, I get it. Alright, let's simplify this d...Yes, I get it. Alright, let's simplify this down to one or two questions:<br /><br />1.) Do you not think the reasons why we talk about culture being involved in a situation/problem/incident are important? For the golfer, what good reasons do we have to bring culture into the mix? You know full well we had good reasons to bring culture up in the plane crash example. The difference here is everything.<br /><br />2.) You say we bring out the culture card every time Korean planes crash but not when others do. But other people have given you plenty of examples of other incidents/problems when culture has been used as an explanation against Western countries by other Western countries. Why don't you acknowledge them? Are you just as upset about cultural explanations for obesity, gun crime, healthcare, and sub-par education in America? You only seem to want to talk about the specific example of plane crashes whenever someone brings this up and then you wonder why we focus in on the validity of the cultural explanation for the crash.<br /><br />3.) I understand of course you think culture affects behaviours, if so then, why shouldn't we be able to use cultural explanations, even speculate about them? Why not even speculate about the golfers? As long as you don't discriminate against people or remain stubborn in your defense of them when evidence comes to light proving them wrong, what is the problem? I used that quote about it wasting time and distracting from other explanations in my blog to show how ludicrous it was in the case of the example you gave of plane crashes, i.e. it would never have wasted time, and would never have distracted from other questions. Far from wasting time and distracting, in fact, the cultural explanation turned out to be right! Surely you are just against closed-minded speculation/opinion, rather than open-minded speculation/opinion.<br /><br />I get that you think throwing cultural explanations out there is not a good idea when they are lazy or may contain prejudice, but we will never know whether they are lazy or prejudiced until they are thrown out there. Strike them down, expose them, ridicule them if they are bad ideas, but I dislike the attempt to silence them with the comparison to racism, which you did do in your original post. You also know that the reasons for having a cultural explanation are all important. The reasons for giving a cultural explanation for the plane crashes were good, that is why they were brought up and will be brought up in the future should another Korean airliner go down again. Korea's respect culture brings the suspicion on itself.<br /><br />I thank you for putting the time and effort into explaining things. I appreciate the dialogue and as I have said before, though I often have cause to disagree with you, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate your writing. Yours is a blog I read probably more often than any others.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-12215915209687646632013-12-16T09:20:36.605-05:002013-12-16T09:20:36.605-05:00Christopher
I used those examples precisely becau...Christopher<br /><br />I used those examples precisely because these were highly stressful situations in which there were moral ramifications to not speaking up - just like the Asiana crash. If you are claiming special circumstances as possible reasons for westerners not challenging the decisions and orders of their superiors then that can only mean that you are making a very trite point - if questioning superiors is not to be expected in morally charged and stressful situations, then the boast that westerners are more likely to do it, is somewhat idle. That is, so what? Besides, the lack of people questioning their superiors in the 2008 crisis was not a war situation, but had moral ramifications.<br /><br />I have left a comment on your blog in which another of your commenters says clearly - and you agreed with him - that the Asiana pilot did in fact speak up, both indirectly and directly. <br /><br />The hole in your logic is that because the west - supposedly - has no culture of reverence of people of superior rank, then that precludes other possible factors that might explain the very observable fact that westerners don't actually challenge authority as much as we would like people to believe. Reverence for celebrity, reverence for expertise, reverence for those who hold power and power itself, tendency to follow the example of peers, reverence for authority itself, being influenced by the group, reverence for real or perceived extraordinary qualities. The list goes on. Just because there may not be a culture of reverence for rank - and I hold this to not be entirely true, because people in the west commonly appeal to authority without questioning it to give themselves authority - does not mean that there do not exist other means by which questioning of "higher ups" is stifled.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-21335194322190454602013-12-16T08:59:30.374-05:002013-12-16T08:59:30.374-05:00Here is what I wrote in the original post in a ful...Here is what I wrote in the original post in a fuller context: "Sure, I suppose culture plays a role in every part of our lives, so it may be valid to ask whether Korean culture played some role in the Asiana crash. It may also be valid to watch two Canadian golfers hit a bad shot in two different occasions in a golf tournament, and wonder aloud whether Canadian culture played a role in those occasions. However, we do have to think about the quality of that question. If entertaining that question seriously wastes time and distracts from asking the more realistic and pertinent questions, the question is not worth thinking about." --> Already, the context makes clear that I am not writing off culture wholesale; rather, I am exhorting people to ask questions about culture that have solid grounds. <br /><br />I reaffirm this point many times over. Here is another reminder in the original post: "This post is not to say that a culture is immune from criticism. Rather, this is to critique the way in which we deploy the cultural criticism. <br /><br />Here are numerous bits that I wrote in the comment section and the follow-up posts previous to this one, consistently showing that I am interested in discussion about culture rather than culture itself: <br /><br />"I can agree that the cultural theory is still "on the table," so to speak. I just wonder how valid it is, and I am merely pointing out the manner in which we pursue that theory."<br /><br />"Note that I never said cultural factors never come into play."<br /><br />"The main point is not to argue that culture plays absolutely no role in plane crashes. Some commenters went so far as to claim that my point was culture does not affect behaviors at all--which is completely nuts. The Korean writes a blog that talks about Korean culture! Of course culture affects behaviors! The main point is that we may encounter problems when we start thinking about culture as an explanation."<br /><br />Remember, I wrote all these BEFORE the NTSB hearing. And you think I'm being slippery?<br /><br />Just look at the level of effort that I have to spend to get you to understand what I already wrote numerous times previously. This is why I concluded that you just don't get it. T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-10420601332200305852013-12-16T08:49:07.451-05:002013-12-16T08:49:07.451-05:00@ben... Obviously people from all over the world d...@ben... Obviously people from all over the world don't always question their superiors. In the examples you give, they are all matters of conflicts, different matters entirely, are you even sure that troops even disagreed with what they were doing? Or the ones that disagreed didn't voice their disapproval? I do recall some major protests against the Irag war and Vietnam too, but not everyone disagreed. <br /><br />However, I do accept what you are saying about many people not questioning superiors, but I can only appeal to anyone who has lived in Korea to back up what I said and also the logic of a set hierarchical respect culture on reverence of people of superior rank and age. This seems to logically affect behaviour, Western cultures don't have it, so who do you think is more likely to have a problem questioning superiors? This common sense logic and my experiences living in Korea and having close ties through family draw me towards my conclusion. That and the evidence from crash investigators in saying these were unique problems in Korean pilots, going back to the KAL 801 flight and the Asiana crash.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-50912314928085841912013-12-16T07:49:37.417-05:002013-12-16T07:49:37.417-05:00@John from Daejeon
I'll repeat. You can't...@John from Daejeon<br /><br />I'll repeat. You can't say anything general based on a small sample size. While American math and sciences aptitude as a population might have been excellent during the Cold War, they've surely fallen in recent times. (As someone from an engineering background, I can tell you that this isn't really a contested statistic). As for gun violence, gun violence in European countries is far lower than the US. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-28955330126835766462013-12-16T07:25:37.834-05:002013-12-16T07:25:37.834-05:00Christopher
That is what I'm questioning - re...Christopher<br /><br />That is what I'm questioning - repeating your statement does not make it true. Like I said, I have lived in the western world for four decades, and I just have only very rarely witnessed people questioning their superiors, and often this arose out of personality conflicts more than anything else. Most of the time, like I said people knuckle under, do what they are told, and most often don't ask questions. <br /><br />Just look at the historical record and you can see what a ridiculous claim you are making. Western involved conflicts - French in Algeria, 1960's, the US in Vietnam, the British in post WWII Kenya, allied troops in Iraq, all of these places where the boundaries of ethics have been stretched (to say the least), and we find almost none of the people involved coming even remotely close to questioning their superiors. Add the previously mentioned 2008 financial crisis in which no subordinates spoke up about the improprieties of their superiors, plus my four decades of observing western culture effectively discouraging questioning of superiors, and it all points to your assertions being suspect.<br /><br />Given all of that, if I did indeed live in Korea, I suspect that the Koreans would seem much like westerners in that respect. The honest position to hold is that you don't actually know the comparative cultural likelihood of questioning superiors because, one, you don't have the stats, and two, your perception of westerners questioning their superiors is probably skewed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-24772475323937986252013-12-16T06:58:21.003-05:002013-12-16T06:58:21.003-05:00I empathise with you on your last paragraph, siste...I empathise with you on your last paragraph, sister. So true.<br />Basically I'm the kind of person who doesn't want to be bothered with this and tries to understand them, but sometimes I really feel annoyed.... Sometimes I go to a library cafe' to read a book or study and by the behaviour of people around me, especially kids, I feel quite like an exotic and dangerous animal in the zoo. Well, I kind of forgive them, they are kids, but I hope their parents teach them to be more sensitive to one another even when they look different.<br /><br />One more thing is when religious fanatics come to teach ME, a European girl educated the Catholic way, about The Bible, that I have been learning about my whole life, for the sake of recruiting new followers of their own religious groups and never give up even when I explicitly say I don't want to join them. Not to mention how they aren't even open to arguments.<br /><br />Finally, I understand Koreans don't expect international faces to speak their language, I come from a much smaller country than Korea btw, but I do kinda feel inferior when my classmates approach me in English because they believe I hate forcing my poor western brain to intimidation by speaking an oh so weird language, while the truth is the very opposite - neither Korean is that difficult, nor I am embarrassed (actually I'm nothing but proud of speaking Korean). I know they don't do it on purpose, besides that, there are those who speak in English with me because they are eager to practise their linguistic skills on field, so I don't accuse them, but I think it's about time Koreans learn a bit more on the position of their country worldwide (not just USA) and accept the fact that we westerners aren't all tourists, soldiers and English teachers. duh.Dac X Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293064862842657519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-7060577482608471452013-12-16T06:44:03.421-05:002013-12-16T06:44:03.421-05:00TheKorean - I understand what you now say you were...TheKorean - I understand what you now say you were trying to say, let me explain why we might be talking about the plane crash in response to you. <br /><br />You spent most of the original post trying to explain why people were unjustified in thinking that the crash might be because of Korean culture, then in the middle of it all you wrote this about whether Korean culture had anything to do with the crash:<br /><br />"If entertaining that question seriously wastes time and distracts from asking the more realistic and pertinent questions, the question is not worth thinking about."<br /><br />Now the tune has been subtly changed (maybe in light of the published interviews of the Asiana pilots), now it seems as if you don't mind the cultural explanation as long as it is not the first explanation put out there and as long as it is well justified. Well, what was the point of that first long post then about the correlation between Korean culture and airplane crashes, when that was not what you were talking about?<br /><br />I take it then that you agree with positing a Korean cultural explanation for the plane crashes now then, just that we be a bit nicer about it, possibly mention it after a little while longer, and are more consistent about doing it with other nations? Is that what you think?<br /><br />Even if this is what you think you still haven't addressed the myriad of examples of occasions when cultural explanations are used against other Western (predominantly White) countries by other Western countries. You have just ignored them. You just focus on airplane crashes and then accuse us of focusing too much on airplane crashes.<br /><br />There is no confusion here, I understand what you think about culture and I think you are wrong. People come to cultural conclusions most often when there is a reason to do so, as Michael mentioned, simple. Perhaps there are times when people are being lazy or even prejudiced, but not always and you have lumped these all cultural explanations together as bad (when they are against poor little non-Western nations) in a very ill-disciplined manner. They should be made on a case by case basis. In the case you made the example of, not me (over a number of posts), there was justification and it has also since been proved at least somewhat correct. <br /><br />YOU made made us talk about the issue in the context of the Asiana crash, so the correlation between Korean culture and the crash becomes incredibly relevant to your point about cultural explanations in general, I just can't understand how you can't see this. Now you write as if you were never really talking about it at all. <br /><br />I think you are being incredibly slippery with it all to be honest.<br />Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-64450141483980131832013-12-16T06:40:20.946-05:002013-12-16T06:40:20.946-05:00If you had lived in Korea you would know that Kore...If you had lived in Korea you would know that Koreans are more likely not to speak up. Never said that Westerners always question their superiors, just they are generally more comfortable doing so than Koreans or at least you can find more examples of it than in Korea. The pilots testimony hints at this fact rather directly.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-11616209182842917612013-12-16T06:35:36.994-05:002013-12-16T06:35:36.994-05:00The Korean: "Was there a plane crash from tho...The Korean: "Was there a plane crash from those countries in recent memory?"<br /><br />Yes, the latest one in Scotland to start with. It wasn't a big plane holding travellers but it did result in killing civillians.<br /><br />And about five years ago, if you consider that recent memory, a few French planes crushed too.<br />And there was another plane crash that killed a whole lot of Polish politicians as well about that time.Dac X Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293064862842657519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-46568549634558551242013-12-16T02:59:51.790-05:002013-12-16T02:59:51.790-05:00I also remember several pundits on TV and in the p...I also remember several pundits on TV and in the papers bringing up Korean culture during the Virginia Tech shooting - for example, the extreme pressures to succeed academically, like what was mentioned in the NYTimes article <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">"Before Deadly Rage"</a><br /><br /><b>"The Korean community of Centreville is a high-aspiring one, and nothing matters more than bright futures for its children. The area is speckled with tutoring academies — “Believe & Achieve,” “Ivy Academy” — high SAT scores and road maps to elite colleges. The local Korean papers publish lists of students admitted to Ivy League institutions. Mr. Cho’s older sister, Sun-Kyung Cho, went to Princeton and made the lists, but not him."</b><br /><br />The talk also widened to include Asian Americans as a whole and the model minority myth from what I recall. Korean culture wasn't the main focal point, but it was mentioned enough for me to take note. <br /><br />Here's another article, this time from the Washington Post, discussing how Korean culture could have been partly responsible for the Virginia Tech shooting: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042002366_3.html" rel="nofollow">"Isolated Boy"</a><br /><br /><b>"[Korean] cultural stigmas make it difficult to deal with the mental illness or emotional stress of a child." <br /><br />I'm not here to argue whether or not these cultural characteristics are relevant in the Virginia Tech shooting. Just that there were quite a few mentions of Korean culture and its possible influence on Cho Seung Hui.</b>JacLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06881260567703817773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-52542414844484377412013-12-16T00:57:08.800-05:002013-12-16T00:57:08.800-05:00I truly appreciate your articles - they often shed...I truly appreciate your articles - they often shed a refreshing light on issues related to Korea. I have lived and worked among Koreans for many years, write blog and run a podcast about my experience here. I must admit that on intuitive level (as I am not an expert) I also tend to find cultural explanations to elements of Korean reality I observe. I do it, however, without trying to "to reduce an identifiable group of people to some kind of indelible essence". You claim that the heart of article is to show how we talk about culture (which is perfectly fine) and that it might be possible (to be investigated) that there is something in Korean culture that makes our flights less safe. At the same time, however, you ridicule those who raise those questions. I understand that you try to focus more on why nobody questions other cultures (like French or Americans) in those kind of cases, but questions the Korean one. It is a very good point as those questions are sometimes asked irresponsibly or suggestively but maybe in essence there is a reason why people do so? Have you ever talked to pilots who work with Korean pilots? Or those who try to train them? I have had a chance to do so and I have heard repeatedly the same conclusions that apply only to Koreans (no serious issues with other nationalities)... I cannot help but raise my eyebrow why that is the case.<br /><br />On a different note, I sometimes feel like a victim of culturalism myself here in Korea. Because I am a foreigner..., because I am white..., because I am a woman..., because I look like eastern European... I get all the labels and all that comes with it automatically, on the spot. Nobody even puts it up for discussion.Anna Sawińskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17310397566687060353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-91873503562738004422013-12-15T23:59:26.412-05:002013-12-15T23:59:26.412-05:00Christopher
Well I have lived with westerners all...Christopher<br /><br />Well I have lived with westerners all of my life - Britain and the US - and my observation is that the idea that we question superiors is a huge exaggeration. I think that we in the west tend to over endow ourselves with qualities that highlight our "individual-ness" because we have a culture that tells us that is who we are. But after four decades of going to school and working within this culture, those who rock the boat are really not appreciated, and most often are seen as trouble-makers, malcontents, or even just whiners who are given short shrift. No-one appreciates such folks, and in real-life, this kind of behaviour is effectively frowned upon and discouraged.<br /><br />So, although I don't live in Korea I do know that this idea of the Asian compliance is popular, yet in my day-to-day life of having lived and worked amongst western "individuals", I've noticed that the vast majority toe the line, don't speak up, and generally won't jeopardize their positions by doing so. Those who speak up, usually don't last long - unless what they say is absolutely amazing. I think the idea of questioning superiors as a cultural trait of westerners is an almost complete fabrication, or maybe just an ideal quality that very, very, few exhibit.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-57358006501007694382013-12-15T23:25:04.791-05:002013-12-15T23:25:04.791-05:00kuiwon, I have to question your knowledge of stati...kuiwon, I have to question your knowledge of statistics as those faulty American math skills in turn helped land American men on the moon (has either Korea done that) and helped develop and unleash the first atomic bombs on our planet--but those, and countless other world/life-changing examples, provide the relevance that the mixture of people of different blood help bring to the American table that has helped the United States accomplish all it has in the world to date (warts and all). <br /><br />I especially find it interesting, and horrific, how statistically speaking, two of the most efficient mast killers in recent time where, in actuality, two Koreans, Woo Bum-kon and Seung-Hui Cho. Rather odd that I've never seen that statistic brought up in those cultural discussions relating to the evil caused by these spree killers and those other vile scum that are/were Anders Behring Breivik, William Unek, Martin Bryant, Campo Elías Delgado, and way too many more to list. It's also quite interesting that so many of these killers that aren't Americans, but U.S. gun culture seems to paint the picture that it's uniquely a U.S. problem when, in reality, its a world-wide problem that affects too many innocent people. But what do I know about math and statistics as an ignorant American?John from Daejeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08431973044799010218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-36162078932224326782013-12-15T23:14:50.150-05:002013-12-15T23:14:50.150-05:00Here is the way I see it. In the original post, it...Here is the way I see it. In the original post, it was clear that I was not primarily interested in whether culture affects airplane crashes. Because some people were confused about it, in this follow-up post, I made it as clear as I can that the point was not about the correlation between culture and airplane crashes, but the way in which we talk about culture.<br /><br />What do you do in your first comment? You talk about the correlation between culture and airline crashes, after I said multiple times that that was not the point! I note again that that was not the point, yet you keep focusing on the correlation between culture and airline crashes. My position has been crystal clear from the very beginning, yet you are asking to clarify my position in your third comment, i.e. after I told you twice on top of the post about what my point was.<br /><br />What am I supposed to think in this instance, other than that you are simply not ready or willing to get the point that I am talking about? T.K. (Ask a Korean!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07663422474464557214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36405856.post-9412483891260727922013-12-15T20:06:02.553-05:002013-12-15T20:06:02.553-05:00On the other side, from the entire post, it was cl...On the other side, from the entire post, it was clear enough for me that it's not about whether Korean culture can really be associated with that plane crush or not. But it was a question of why smaller countries with visible distinct cultures (as South Korea is) are more questioned than the "powerful" ones, in US' mass-media .Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01187924609890317104noreply@blogger.com